The Kool-aid Tripod is dead, long live the REAL Pivot.

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kmmcnabb

kmmcnabb

New
Will listen tonight

Haven't listened yet but will tonight. From my perspective, I only realized that my swing center can't be the head. I can't get downplane keeping my head still. My head must move back but the base of my neck stays stationary. It works but your hips must slide then turn both back and forward.

Kevin
 
rwh

rwh

New
I also did not do well with the head in the middle "tripod" and the RFP approach. I attended one of Brian's golf schools and learned that the "tripod"/RFP method didn't match up with my abilities/preferences. After getting one of Brian's chiropractic treatments, er, golf lessons, I have been "fixed" and playing better ever since.

This is no knock on anyone else or their way of teaching. The point is that one size doesn't fit all. When I was having problems with the "tripod"/RFP, I thought there was something "wrong" with me. That was the Kool-Aid talking. In reality, it just wasn't the best way for me and I needed something else.


 
D

DOCW3

New
tongzilla said:
Guys, I found an interesting poll here about the Head Center / Base of Neck Center debate.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=30667#post30667

Please feel free to vote :)
Click to expand...

I didn't vote because of the options and initially didn't post an alternative as suggested because of the thread's age. However, I see the thread is now "invalid." I am reminded that HK considered both acceptable and acknowledged the argument that the back of the neck was more geometrically correct. He chose the head because in his view the eyes would determine movement and the player would not know with the other option. Brain did indicate in the Croker video that other camera positions were needed.

DRW
 
M

Mike Lance

Banned
Doc,

It was taken down because I don't tolerate instructor bashing and the thread quickly degenerated into just that.
Too bad...Unfortunately...

If anyone has any questions, just PM me on "the koolaid" forum. :)

Bagger
 
self-mastery

self-mastery

New
Mike Lance said:
Doc,
It was taken down because I don't tolerate instructor bashing and the thread quickly degenerated into just that.
Too bad...Unfortunately...
If anyone has any questions, just PM me on "the koolaid" forum. :)
Bagger
Click to expand...

When the truth was presented you quickly (hastefully) shut it down. That sounds about right....
 
T

tradekid

New
Mike Lance said:
Doc,

It was taken down because I don't tolerate instructor bashing and the thread quickly degenerated into just that.
Too bad...Unfortunately...

If anyone has any questions, just PM me on "the koolaid" forum. :)

Bagger
Click to expand...

You should have shut it down when one individual started calling others with a dissenting view as "blind henchmen."
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The truth.

The truth IS:

Snead, Nelson, Hogan, Nicklaus, Player, Palmer, Weiskoff, Miller, Trevino, Watson, Norman, Seve, Faldo, Woods,

ALL HAD THIS IN COMMON:

None of them used the "Head precisely in between the feet 'Tripod' Swing Center."

None.

None of them used Right Forearm Takeaway the way the Kool-Aid site promotes.

None.

None of them had a shiftless plane.

None.

None of them were hitters, the way it is being taught by these folks.

None.

Zero.

Mr. Lance, you yourself, made 'light' (geefully) that the "Turn around the spine" pivot is a PILLAR (your words) of the Manzella teaching philosophy.

But, it is YOUR guy that is trying to sell a VERY UNPROVEN set of ideals as IDEAL.

They are not.

I tried them, taught them, and found them WOEFULLY inferior to the 'set of ideals' that I have developed over my 25 YEARS of continuous teaching and research, REFINING and REAL-WORLD sharpening of my skills.

IT PAINS ME, when someone comes to me, like rwh, who loves golf and has not improved due to INFERIOR methodology.

I have always prided myself at my LIVE Teaching Skills, but noone in the 'biz' seems to care a lick whether or not my teaching actually WORKS BETTER.

It does.

And not just when I do it.

Jim0068 has become a nice little teacher in no time at all, because HE GETS IT.

Mike Fiiney, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger "got it" long ago.

There is NO MAGIC PILL in golf.

RFT, a one plane swing, a head centered pivot, etc WON'T FIX EVERYBODY EVER.

Orthodox procedures are orthodox for a reason, and real-world teaching ABILITY will always trump hype.

One day, ya'll will all realize I was right.

Until then, have a nice day.

BriManz
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
The "blind henchmen" thing came in the second post tho......

....about 7 or 8 posts in the thread when I last saw it......

You had a couple I think....maybe #4 and #6 I'd guess (ballpark guess).....links were posted containing old threads on the issue....("Pivot Wars" and "Homer's two gifts...and two pivot centers").....I thought that was good actually....give ppl the whole story....

...

I dunno what went down after that...

...but the henchman thing came very early......and there were prolly more bashing posts in between that and the last post that I saw (about 8 in the thread I'd guess)....

I dunno tho man....it prolly was gonna degenerate into a big war (may have and I may have just missed it- [darn!])......at the least a debate.......

But the hatin started in post #2......
 
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Michael Finney

Michael Finney

New
Brian Manzella said:
The truth IS:

Snead, Nelson, Hogan, Nicklaus, Player, Palmer, Weiskoff, Miller, Trevino, Watson, Norman, Seve, Faldo, Woods,

ALL HAD THIS IN COMMON:

None of them used the "Head precisely in between the feet 'Tripod' Swing Center."

None.

None of them used Right Forearm Takeaway the way the Kool-Aid site promotes.

None.

None of them had a shiftless plane.

None.

None of them were hitters, the way it is being taught by these folks.

None.

Zero.

Mr. Lance, you yourself, made 'light' (geefully) that the "Turn around the spine" pivot is a PILLAR (your words) of the Manzella teaching philosophy.

But, it is YOUR guy that is trying to sell a VERY UNPROVEN set of ideals as IDEAL.

They are not.

I tried them, taught them, and found them WOEFULLY inferior to the 'set of ideals' that I have developed over my 25 YEARS of continuous teaching and research, REFINING and REAL-WORLD sharpening of my skills.

IT PAINS ME, when someone comes to me, like rwh, who loves golf and has not improved due to INFERIOR methodology.

I have always prided myself at my LIVE Teaching Skills, but noone in the 'biz' seems to care a lick whether or not my teaching actually WORKS BETTER.

It does.

And not just when I do it.

Jim0068 has become a nice little teacher in no time at all, because HE GETS IT.

Mike Fiiney, Tom Bartlett and Chris Hamburger "got it" long ago.

There is NO MAGIC PILL in golf.

RFT, a one plane swing, a head centered pivot, etc WON'T FIX EVERYBODY EVER.

Orthodox procedures are orthodox for a reason, and real-world teaching ABILITY will always trump hype.

One day, ya'll will all realize I was right.

Until then, have a nice day.

BriManz
Click to expand...

damn good post, brian....

i've always been an advocate of bare bones, substative debate....all the conversation and general hilarity of most golf forums bore me......posts over two paragraphs long bore me....if you have to type that much, do an audio or a video.....homer held it to 241 pages instead of 2400...you all should learn from that.....and by the way, even though brian's quoted post above is more than two paragraphs, they went very quickly...and to the point, i might add....everyone should be so concise (brian should do more of it, too)
 
M

Mike Lance

Banned
Brian,

I don't have any issues with you or your teaching. I respect your knowledge, abilities, and time on the turf. I'm not a fan of your forum persona, but that's why I run the other one. It's no secret you have taken a strong position on the pivot center and my words, "pillar" was a pun. A good play on words I thought, but meant in a respectful way.

I apologize for not pulling the trigger earlier when one of our members bashed your forum members. Instructor bashing is something I've grown very weary of. It's unprofessional and doesn't advance the cause for anyone. That said, if we did a member comparison, I'm guessing at least half of each forum are joint members, probably more. It's all about the learning.

I'm not going to speak for "my guy". He's a big boy and can speak for himself. But speaking for myself, you know and I know that the box you have put him in is not truthful. It's always easy to fix a guy that has been to another instructor, been given a lesson and the medicine wasn't the right prescription for that particular person. Bashing that first instructor as unable to teach is just ...unreal. I hope it's not your primary means for seeking gain but it certainly appears that way from the outside.

How many have you lost after the first prescription? Do you regret not having them back for a second opportunity?

For me, it was Ben Doyle. He tried every way from Sunday to get me into his maximum participation pattern. I worked on it for a few years and made some progress, but it's not a good fit. Never will be. Going to the next guy for a lesson makes it that much easier for the instructor doesn't it? Do I bash Ben as being a poor teacher? Would you? If not, why not?

Lynn has made his position on this issue pretty clear, he's stated you can have it both ways but he has his preferences and they work. Brilliantly I might add. But not for everyone.

Not sure I'll be back here, but you know where to find me.

Bagger
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
You don't at all see any sense in any of this stuff Brian's teaching Mathew?

I don't think of myself as a "blind henchman" or a "partisan disciple" BTW....

And either of those may not be as raw as "prick with ears" (wherever the f that's from) but they're more or less just as much of a "dis" anyway.
 
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M

Mathew

Banned
birdie_man said:
You don't at all see any sense in any of this stuff Brian's teaching Mathew?
Click to expand...

The bad side of Brian is that he acts like an egomaniac, hell bent on 'telling everyone how it is'. 'Substantive debate' would be fine.... however neither him nor henchmen Finney is capable of it. IMO there are errors (which I won't bother going into - otherwise the pack of wolves will come out) in Brians teachings but from accounts an ok teacher....


I don't think of myself as a "blind henchman" or a "partisan disciple" BTW....
Click to expand...


Im not making a blanket statement and saying everyone here is... but I am saying there are people who are....
 
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