The Manzella Project: Charles Barkley

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Brian,

Not sure how much you watch the Golf Channel, but Hank Haney has a new show where he aims to fix Charles Barkley's swing.

There is a lot of "junk" that Haney spews on the program.

Just wondering your take on the show and maybe how you would fix Sir Charles.
 
All he taught charles to do was to get flatter and stop his head dip. Brian is a way better teacher then him. I have no idea how haney made it to the top.
 

ggsjpc

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All he taught charles to do was to get flatter and stop his head dip. Brian is a way better teacher then him. I have no idea how haney made it to the top.

right place at the right time. He happened to be on the range one evening when mark o'meara was struggling. Mark asked for another set of eyes and hank gave it to him. Mark wins us Am and later introduces Tiger to him. End of story.
 
haney got rid of sir charles's pause in the first episode. it may be junk by the book, but as they say around here, if it makes your hit it better...
 
I enjoyed the episode and was entertained. I laughed at both of those guys and thought it was presented pretty well.

Any decent instructor could fix Charles. For Charles to be fixed, he has to have respect for the guy teaching him whether it's warranted or not. The fact Haney has Tiger's ear is all Charles needs to "tune in" an get help. I think Haney did great.

There are probably 50 guys (posters and lurkers) on this Forum that could fix Charles.

I'd take his issues on in a second and I know Bman would too.
 
I enjoyed the show with Freddie and Mark Wahlburg more than the Haney and Barkley show. Freddie gave the exact reason why pro's go to the A-list teaching pro's.
 
I enjoyed the show with Freddie and Mark Wahlburg more than the Haney and Barkley show. Freddie gave the exact reason why pro's go to the A-list teaching pro's.

While none of those 'Playing Lessons With the Pros' are all that precise or in depth with their instruction, I enjoy watching each one of those and usually come away learning something new or something I forgot about. I DVR'd the Barkley show, but I knew the end result of the season before it aired.




3JACK
 
right place at the right time. He happened to be on the range one evening when mark o'meara was struggling. Mark asked for another set of eyes and hank gave it to him. Mark wins us Am and later introduces Tiger to him. End of story.

Actually, O'Meara was playing the hall of fame tourney as a pro in 1982 or thereabouts. Haney was a teaching pro at Pinehurst and O'Meara was told to talk to him about his swing. O'Meara was way too steep, as were many players who grew up in that era. Haney flattened him out, he improved. Haney also got ahold of Bill Rogers after he won the British Open, and tried flattening his swing, ruining it in the process. Rogers had a great upright swing, lct, and could hit it really straight. He was short off the tee, and figured he needed to hit it further. I loved watching Rogers play, he was a great putter and gritty as could be. He tried getting longer and the flatter swing did him in. I took a lesson from a Haney disciple twenty years ago, I still regret it.
 
In a nutshell, he had me taking the club up and down on a wooden plane board. He had me go up the plane and down, over and over. Problem was that my clubface was never fixed. It was way too open, I hit it too inside out with a big flip closed. Adjusting the plane was ok, however without fixing the clubface I hit nothing but weak pushes. This site has taught me how important the clubface position is to the swing. If I had known that then, the changes he advocated may have worked. It got me into some bad positions that took me a long time to fix.
 
I worked with a Haney guy once. He taught me what Brian refers to as pop out. I also started slicing everything off the planet as well. Probably the same issue as stated above with clubface.

My problem was that it was very body positional instruction. They bent and twisted me into all sorts of positions, but never really were able to communicate effectively to me what I was trying to do.

Like last night Haney kept telling Barkley, get flatter. I agree, but what does get flatter mean. Give me something I can relate too like throwing the drunk off my back, or shake the sugar.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Here is the deal with Sir Charles:

If you fix the hitch, you look like a genius.

But in the real world, and maybe on this show, what happens if the hitch stays???

It gives Haney an "out." "Poor charles is 'mental,' I 'd my best," Haney might say.

To me, I would try to do an "end run" around fixing the hitch.

Hmmm......
 
Here is the deal with Sir Charles:

If you fix the hitch, you look like a genius.

But in the real world, and maybe on this show, what happens if the hitch stays???

It gives Haney an "out." "Poor charles is 'mental,' I 'd my best," Haney might say.

To me, I would try to do an "end run" around fixing the hitch.

Hmmm......

Good point.

The other factor is that Haney gets to work with Charles for 6 months straight and he has worked a very long day at it.

Not every teacher has the luxury to work with somebody for that long and have them that dedicated.



3JACK
 
There's a guy who hits on the range on my course, takes lessons, hits millions of balls, and has "the hitch." Almost stops halfway on downswing. Shoots in the mid-to-upper 80's. It's quite bizarre to watch in person.
 
Here is the deal with Sir Charles:

If you fix the hitch, you look like a genius.

But in the real world, and maybe on this show, what happens if the hitch stays???

It gives Haney an "out." "Poor charles is 'mental,' I 'd my best," Haney might say.

To me, I would try to do an "end run" around fixing the hitch.

Hmmm......

but..............he did fix the hitch. i dont see what you are getting at? i thought the hitch was mental, but haney's explanation of it actually made sense. are you saying that you would try to fix him without fixing the hitch for some reason?
 
but..............he did fix the hitch. i dont see what you are getting at? i thought the hitch was mental, but haney's explanation of it actually made sense. are you saying that you would try to fix him without fixing the hitch for some reason?

The hitch is mental. But, IMO the 'hitch' or the 'yips' root cause is in technique. And I honestly believe that whether you have CB's type of yips, putting yips or if you were Chuck Knoblauch or Steve Sax who suddenly couldn't throw a ball from second to first base.

Charles had a massive head dip caused by him just dipping his head instead of dipping the head because of axis tilt. In order to counter that, he then has to rise his head dramatically on the downswing or he would hit 3 feet behind the ball. Then he has that extremely steep swing path. That alone makes it almost impossible for anybody to hit the ball even at a mediocre level. Then there's the grip change in his takeaway.

I'm positive that Charles was doing all of this way before he developed the yips. And because he was doing that, he was hitting the awful shots. Hitting spectators and it reeked havoc with his mind.

I believe it's the same with putting yips. Studies show that the majority of golfers aim a little left of the target (if they are right handed). And studies show that to counter that they tend to open the clubface right before impact. That's a big part of yipping a putt in my book. While you can have people with the yips that jab at it, usually a yip consists of an opening of the blade right at impact. Again, bad technique led to bad results which led to a catastrophic meltdown in the brain.

What I think Brian is getting at is that Haney was in a no lose situation. If he fixes Charles' swing, he's the savior. If he doesn't, well Charles is just a headcase. But I firmly believe that there are a lot of teachers if they had that amount of time from Charles and received that much dedication from him could correct his problems.




3JACK
 
The hitch is mental. But, IMO the 'hitch' or the 'yips' root cause is in technique. And I honestly believe that whether you have CB's type of yips, putting yips or if you were Chuck Knoblauch or Steve Sax who suddenly couldn't throw a ball from second to first base.

Charles had a massive head dip caused by him just dipping his head instead of dipping the head because of axis tilt. In order to counter that, he then has to rise his head dramatically on the downswing or he would hit 3 feet behind the ball. Then he has that extremely steep swing path. That alone makes it almost impossible for anybody to hit the ball even at a mediocre level. Then there's the grip change in his takeaway.

I'm positive that Charles was doing all of this way before he developed the yips. And because he was doing that, he was hitting the awful shots. Hitting spectators and it reeked havoc with his mind.

I believe it's the same with putting yips. Studies show that the majority of golfers aim a little left of the target (if they are right handed). And studies show that to counter that they tend to open the clubface right before impact. That's a big part of yipping a putt in my book. While you can have people with the yips that jab at it, usually a yip consists of an opening of the blade right at impact. Again, bad technique led to bad results which led to a catastrophic meltdown in the brain.

What I think Brian is getting at is that Haney was in a no lose situation. If he fixes Charles' swing, he's the savior. If he doesn't, well Charles is just a headcase. But I firmly believe that there are a lot of teachers if they had that amount of time from Charles and received that much dedication from him could correct his problems.




3JACK

Good post 3Jack.agree 100%...good summary.
 
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