self-mastery
New
Leaving your putter and wedges at home.
The Most Damaging Move in Golf.
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
- Start date
- Status
ColinMB
New
What a great topic and look at the responses already.
This is SO EASY it's not fair. I know I'm wrong, but I know darn well the one move that -destroys- my swing, can mess up my head and -obliterate- my score for a full game if I don't shake it..........
The first move down on the downswing. If it's too aggressive, too early, not a 'down move', however you want to look at it, or call it, that's it. Game killer right there, with darn near every club (except putter).
This is SO EASY it's not fair. I know I'm wrong, but I know darn well the one move that -destroys- my swing, can mess up my head and -obliterate- my score for a full game if I don't shake it..........
The first move down on the downswing. If it's too aggressive, too early, not a 'down move', however you want to look at it, or call it, that's it. Game killer right there, with darn near every club (except putter).
Michael Jacobs
Super Moderator
Don't know what Brian has in mind for this but I am going with this one!
"Head precisely in the middle of the feet" backswing pivot"
Brian Manzella
Administrator
MANZELLA ANSWER.
A "real" Reverse Pivot.
Defined as, weight left, steep shoulders, adding leftward head tilt, left shoulder over left leg.
As bad as the "head precisely between the feet" is as a idea, the "real" Reverse Pivot is worse.
I saw a guy on the range yesterday with a good grip, nice wrist action going back, club up his left arm through impact, and a good swivel.
He was a reverse pivoter, and basically, couldn't play dead in a war movie.
A "real" Reverse Pivot.
Defined as, weight left, steep shoulders, adding leftward head tilt, left shoulder over left leg.
As bad as the "head precisely between the feet" is as a idea, the "real" Reverse Pivot is worse.
I saw a guy on the range yesterday with a good grip, nice wrist action going back, club up his left arm through impact, and a good swivel.
He was a reverse pivoter, and basically, couldn't play dead in a war movie.
So mac ogrady/morad including stack/tilt pattern and the 3 cog's left counts as a reverse pivot?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
If the show fits...
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you Brian.
I think incorrect hand/wrist action would raise handicaps by the biggest margin.
Club face alignment has the greatest influence over ball trajectory and is a directly linked of hand motion.
A golfer can only reverse pivot on a certain percentage of shots but uneducated hands can affect every part of the game; putting, chipping, pitching and the long game.
Tell me if I'm talking baloney!
Last edited:
For me, to define something as the 'most damaging move' would have to be a move from which there is no recovery possible to hit a ball successfully. As such it has to be a downswing move, albeit quite possibly caused by a backswing fault.
If a real reverse pivot is a spine tilted towards target on the backswing it can't be 'the' most damaging as recovery is possible, e.g extreme hip slide toward target creating a spine tilt away from target (this might well be the most physically damaging move though!)
Maybe the typical downswing move following the reverse pivot on the backswing could be most damaging, weight and tilt shifting away from target? Or poor sequencing on the downswing, again often caused by a poor backswing.
Or maybe early extension/hip thrust causing a movement in spine angle up away from the ball, try recovering from a severe case of that!
If a real reverse pivot is a spine tilted towards target on the backswing it can't be 'the' most damaging as recovery is possible, e.g extreme hip slide toward target creating a spine tilt away from target (this might well be the most physically damaging move though!)
Maybe the typical downswing move following the reverse pivot on the backswing could be most damaging, weight and tilt shifting away from target? Or poor sequencing on the downswing, again often caused by a poor backswing.
Or maybe early extension/hip thrust causing a movement in spine angle up away from the ball, try recovering from a severe case of that!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Well...
Too many ifs.
EVERYONE hits the ball with some axis tilt (to the right).
The reverse pivot CAUSES a dozen or so OTHER things. That's why it's my #1 fault.
Too many ifs.
EVERYONE hits the ball with some axis tilt (to the right).
The reverse pivot CAUSES a dozen or so OTHER things. That's why it's my #1 fault.
c21heel
New
After watching about a gazillion swing sequence vidoes, there is just something about how a pro moves his hips and shoulders through the downswing that a lot of amateurs can't replicate for whatever reason. Whatever gets your shoulders/hips out of sync would seem to be the most damaging move to me.
You see weak grips, strong grips, inside takeaways, outside takeaways, one-plane, two-plane, across the line, under the plane, flippers, delayed hitters, etc. on all the tours. But, they all look the same moving through impact.
This is where I'm directing my analysis lately. That is why I have asked a lot of questions about "throwing the drunk off the back."
You see weak grips, strong grips, inside takeaways, outside takeaways, one-plane, two-plane, across the line, under the plane, flippers, delayed hitters, etc. on all the tours. But, they all look the same moving through impact.
This is where I'm directing my analysis lately. That is why I have asked a lot of questions about "throwing the drunk off the back."
Guitar Hero
New member
X-Factor
c21heel
New
I thought about X-Factor, but I think the term can be confusing when one thinks of the X-Factor occuring in pure level rotation. I'm trying to understand to what degree the hips turn horizontal in the downswing and to what degree the shoulders turn vertical. Not that either is purely horizontal or vertical.
I could be running down a dead-end road, but for me, it's one of the few remaining areas that I haven't given a great deal of consideraion.
I could be running down a dead-end road, but for me, it's one of the few remaining areas that I haven't given a great deal of consideraion.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Snead didn't have an x-factor and was hitting it 280-290 yards way back in the day of balata balls, wooden heads, steel shafts, bad launch conditions and #1 SHAGGY fairways.
thefuture37
Banned
Snead's shoulders didn't turn farther than his hips?
Dariusz J.
New member
Fair point, but in my opinion the most damaging move has to be that for which there is no recovery.
And of course everyone has some tilt away from target, that's why I included it as part of 'a' recovery.
- Status