The Most Damaging Move in Golf.
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
and
I just think it's a rubbish idea and would agree that someone trying to the x-factor can actually limit their distance if they aren't flexible enough
braveheart
New
Change of posture on downswing or moving hips toward the ball thus increasing the probability of slices and possible shanks but most certainly making good ball contact inconsistent.
thefuture37
Banned
how about the most beneficial move in the swing? such as, if you could only work on doing one thing(or making sure you keep doing it if you already do) for the rest of your golf days, what would it be?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
clubface control
you could have the most ulgy swing in the world but if you could control the face like a pro, you'd most likely be on tour
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
A method teacher that tries to teach pure hitting(if there is such a thing) to all students for full swing proceedures.
indeed...
i think that people, especially as they progress, make poor swings because they are: 1) afraid the clubface won't be "square" or 2) feel something different from normal in the alignment of the face and try to make up for it...
any suggestions on mastering clubface control?
brian agrees:
http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/7392-what-makes-good-golfer-good.html
Agree with that. And if you have a halfway decent understanding of ballflight rules and a little understanding of d-plane, I think it's a heck of a lot easier to get to the point of controlling clubface and also understanding impact of shaft lean.
For forever, I thought my tendency to miss with a pull hook was a clubpath issue and that mistaken idea really hurt me - it was a clubface issue that was plaguing me. Figuring out that it was a clubface control issue was an enormous leap forward - I needed a more open face at impact, not a more in-to-out path. Some really good players figure that out fast - I never did.
It's much easier to experiment with different ways to load and unload power in a swing once you have enough control of the clubface to understand how to control that as a variable and interpret the results of other changes.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
ya, practice. there is no other way around it, you have to remember that these guys hit balls and play golf EVERY DAY. A luxury we don't have thus we suffer. Now i'm not saying if you could play/practice everyday you'd be a pro but you might get really good at playing golf and then tell me your putting and short game needs work
However have a real understanding of ballflight will help because once you really understand it you can correct a mistake on the course immediately (next shot). This will help you become a better golfer
Agreed 100%
Dynamic X factor however is altogether different and the majority of male tour professional do it, including Snead.
Deadly_Scope
New
The x-factor concept of the differential between the upper and lower body is ok, but the hip and shoulder motions still have to be aligned to work on particular planes during the stroke inorder that its influence allows and assists the onplane motion of the club. This is not a minor point of deficiency in their assessment of the situation.
Now lets take the concept of resistance. The word resistance is wrong! There by no stretch of the english language resistance going on in any good golf swing. Good golf swings embrace motion in their legs, their hips, even the pressures in the feet are all in motion and this is supposed to come about by resisting! Get outta here!
If you like to think of the backswing as a top-down action where the shoulders drag the hips which many people do and is certainly an option, just think what resisting would do to that action. What does the word resistance say about this, resisting is introducing muscular tension with conflicting muscles to hold a skeletal shape until other forces overcome it. I want to remove all of that from your brains people. If your going to make that idea work you should be thinking along the lines of upper body dragging a lower body and because leg motion and hip motion is strongly linked, that is held up only using same muscles in the legs that you have been using since a child inorder to stand up. Not to mention that the differential gains the more you can turn in this manner because of the way that you went about stretching it. The golf swing will have a ballistic stretch rather than a static one... which one do you think loads more and gets the greater differential....
Unfortunately the x-factor had a concept half right in their heads so people knew there was something in what they said but their description wasn't refined enough for public consumption and ultimately people reading golf digest, the average golf fan out there that just loves to play reading this gets all messed up.
Let me ask you this, do you want a golf swing that is easy to load, allows free movement or do you want a golf stroke that is tight, and difficult to load. The choice is yours?
Now lets take the concept of resistance. The word resistance is wrong! There by no stretch of the english language resistance going on in any good golf swing. Good golf swings embrace motion in their legs, their hips, even the pressures in the feet are all in motion and this is supposed to come about by resisting! Get outta here!
If you like to think of the backswing as a top-down action where the shoulders drag the hips which many people do and is certainly an option, just think what resisting would do to that action. What does the word resistance say about this, resisting is introducing muscular tension with conflicting muscles to hold a skeletal shape until other forces overcome it. I want to remove all of that from your brains people. If your going to make that idea work you should be thinking along the lines of upper body dragging a lower body and because leg motion and hip motion is strongly linked, that is held up only using same muscles in the legs that you have been using since a child inorder to stand up. Not to mention that the differential gains the more you can turn in this manner because of the way that you went about stretching it. The golf swing will have a ballistic stretch rather than a static one... which one do you think loads more and gets the greater differential....
Unfortunately the x-factor had a concept half right in their heads so people knew there was something in what they said but their description wasn't refined enough for public consumption and ultimately people reading golf digest, the average golf fan out there that just loves to play reading this gets all messed up.
Let me ask you this, do you want a golf swing that is easy to load, allows free movement or do you want a golf stroke that is tight, and difficult to load. The choice is yours?
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Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
I think that the left hand on the left side of the grip, for righties, 'may' be the worst move in golf!
I
I agree Damon. Taking grip at address instead of impact fix is my number one and I see it allday everyday on the lesson tee and I'm sure you do too. Left thumb on left side or even straight down the shaft - no chance of creating an onplane force - Talking bout the sweet spot plane
Does address grip ie. left thumb on left side of shaft CREATE a reverse pivot as this is the only way people can swing left enough (bent plane line) to square up the face Another case of the body trying to do what the hands will permit them to hit the shot somewhere near the target. That's why I don't think that a faulty Zone 1 will always cause Zone 2 and 3 breakdown in this case and many others the reverse is true.. Although Homer did say that these zones are seperate but also inter-connected
I agree Damon. Taking grip at address instead of impact fix is my number one and I see it allday everyday on the lesson tee and I'm sure you do too. Left thumb on left side or even straight down the shaft - no chance of creating an onplane force - Talking bout the sweet spot plane
Does address grip ie. left thumb on left side of shaft CREATE a reverse pivot as this is the only way people can swing left enough (bent plane line) to square up the face
Another case of the body trying to do what the hands will permit them to hit the shot somewhere near the target. That's why I don't think that a faulty Zone 1 will always cause Zone 2 and 3 breakdown in this case and many others the reverse is true.. Although Homer did say that these zones are seperate but also inter-connected
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Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
Yes,
It is near impossible to have any clubface control, force, etc. I have not seen one person do well with an overly weak grip!
It is near impossible to have any clubface control, force, etc. I have not seen one person do well with an overly weak grip!
KOC
New
If I did what Brian mentioned, I reversed pivot. But if i also did together with the release of the forward spine tilt to the top as taught by your mentioned teachers, I don't think i reverse pivot...yet, it might fall into what Brian opinion as next bad idea - the "head precisely between the feet" .
If I did what Brian mentioned, I reversed pivot. But if i also did together with the release of the forward spine tilt to the top as taught by your mentioned teachers, I don't think i reverse pivot...yet, it might fall into what Brian opinion as next bad idea - the "head precisely between the feet" .
not worth the effort to get burnt at the stake
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Please help me.
I made a 41 on the Wonderlic test, but I have no idea what the last two posts are trying to say.
Tom Bartlett is the smartest guy I know, and he hasn't a clue either.
Any military code breakers in the house?
I made a 41 on the Wonderlic test, but I have no idea what the last two posts are trying to say.
Tom Bartlett is the smartest guy I know, and he hasn't a clue either.
Any military code breakers in the house?
stack and tilt
In a reverse pivot the head normally goes down and forward in the backswing as you stated in your early post. The stack and tilt method requires the golfer to change their spine angle (standup)continously to maintain the head position to prevent that movement. From a camera view it is not easy to see. It at least was one of the puzzling things about S&T that explained how one part worked. Working the arms well inside answers the question on how the eliminated having a too steep swing plane. The second post I believe indicated that since you expressed displeasure on this techniqu it would be better not to mention it. As for me with my bum leg why not stick to one of the foundations of TGM which is if I can satisfy the 3 imperatives and repeat it and it solves a physical issue why not use it? That is not saying it is optimal for the majority.
Dave
In a reverse pivot the head normally goes down and forward in the backswing as you stated in your early post. The stack and tilt method requires the golfer to change their spine angle (standup)continously to maintain the head position to prevent that movement. From a camera view it is not easy to see. It at least was one of the puzzling things about S&T that explained how one part worked. Working the arms well inside answers the question on how the eliminated having a too steep swing plane. The second post I believe indicated that since you expressed displeasure on this techniqu it would be better not to mention it. As for me with my bum leg why not stick to one of the foundations of TGM which is if I can satisfy the 3 imperatives and repeat it and it solves a physical issue why not use it? That is not saying it is optimal for the majority.
Dave
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