The Old Masters ONE TWO
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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lia41985
New member
P this, P that--just swing!
John Jacobs's writing brings perspective to this discussion (read pages 20 and 21):
<iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" style="border:0px" src="http://books.google.com/books?id=PZUgoDRHnn4C&lpg=PP1&dq=practical%20golf&pg=PA20&output=embed" width=500 height=500></iframe>
The "revolutionary" brigade sounds like those Italian assitants Jacobs worked with.
John Jacobs's writing brings perspective to this discussion (read pages 20 and 21):
<iframe frameborder="0" scrolling="no" style="border:0px" src="http://books.google.com/books?id=PZUgoDRHnn4C&lpg=PP1&dq=practical%20golf&pg=PA20&output=embed" width=500 height=500></iframe>
The "revolutionary" brigade sounds like those Italian assitants Jacobs worked with.
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Why do people feel like I am singling out S&T?
The are plenty of methodologies out there who believe in a backswing that does not displace the left shoulder socket and left hip socket, and left hand AWAY from the ball.
To do this, you can't hover to much, and you have to have your arms more up than the flat trend in golf swing methodology land.
I saw NO super flat swings, and NO super restricted pivot swings ANYWHERE near the leader board.
I think that this "arms super-glued to the upper torso, don't break an egg under the right foot on the backswing, cut off finish GOLF PATTERN" was sold as a revolution on a couple of fronts. Not just S&T.
I was right all along.
It is just a pattern (or two) that might work for someone.
It is NOT the future of golf.
The future of golf is 300 yard carries, with an athletic motion.
The are plenty of methodologies out there who believe in a backswing that does not displace the left shoulder socket and left hip socket, and left hand AWAY from the ball.
To do this, you can't hover to much, and you have to have your arms more up than the flat trend in golf swing methodology land.
I saw NO super flat swings, and NO super restricted pivot swings ANYWHERE near the leader board.
I think that this "arms super-glued to the upper torso, don't break an egg under the right foot on the backswing, cut off finish GOLF PATTERN" was sold as a revolution on a couple of fronts. Not just S&T.
I was right all along.
It is just a pattern (or two) that might work for someone.
It is NOT the future of golf.
The future of golf is 300 yard carries, with an athletic motion.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Its amazing to see the other message boards light up when you post threads like this. The obsession is almost scary. I love seeing guys like gmbtempe unload on you everywhere else. The thesis is clear to me....that while anything can work, its just not gonna take over the way golf is taught. Pretty simple.
gmbtempe
New
unload?
really?
I just like hearing both sides, here its pretty much the pied piper. Sorry for wanting to investigate things myself.
Given I am a book literalist (as many GTE's have labeled me), I know the expectations are pretty low for my way of researching and making decisions.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
And its not the pied piper times a thousand at richie's?? I never see you dump on them here like you dump on BM over there.
gmbtempe
New
Well there could be many really, I used two it could have been 10 I suppose whether we are talking about leg, hip, shoulder, head, etc movements.
gmbtempe
New
You don't spend much time there I guess as I have stated opposing viewpoints with several things that have been posted to members there. I don't say the other side is wrong or proclaim anything right or wrong, to many ways to swing to make that type of statement.
My mind is not made up on this "left leaning" or "tripod" stuff.
I feel the swing should have a stable center like Adam Scott or Schwartzel rather than a move like Brian makes. I feel like towards the top the weight moves to the left. Not that much different I guess than most (correct me if thats a wrong statement, its my perception).
I just don't think I am being unfair. I said Brian's post was cryptic, he clarified it at Richie's, I thanked him. I just want to learn.
While there's always an arse licker or two here, it's not all the pied piper.
Where is this center located that should be stable in your opinion? By stable do you mean it can move somewhat or it must not move at all? Also do you think there is multiple centers or just one? Interested in your viewpoint on this as i know you have been exposed to some differing opinions and i think you may have tried these out to see what works for you best, just guessing , but you can let me know if i'm wrong. Thanks in advance.
gmbtempe
New
I know, it was unfair and regret saying it, there are not many that disagree with Brian would be a better statement. Whats funny is when he was all TGM lots agreed, now he is not as TGM (and opening against a lot of it) and still many agree. You see where I am going? I have not seen this evidence yet to definitely say "yea, that is right, and that is wrong.
gmbtempe
New
To me I like the base of the neck as a pretty good gauge because its tougher to influence. For example, say a player has their heads tilted further away from the target so when they turn it looks like a bigger shift off the ball compared to say someone like Adam Scott who keeps his head very close to vertical. The base of the neck seems better then the head itself. The head is going to move around some, and I think its ok for the upper body to move around some, I mean its a dynamic motion, how much is the bigger question, and maybe a bigger one is how much you are moving it, in what direction at what point in the swing, intentionally. If I had a preference to seeing it move around it would be less of a concern in the horizontal plane rather then the vertical. If anyone has seen my swing, its something I suck at, my head moves up pretty badly, then down as I compress, which is not so bad IMO (the down part, the up part sucks). I don't want Rocco (well right).
I definitely think there are multiple centers and that they can be manipulated.
This is my current line of thinking, its something that as I have worked on moving from well off the ball to more centered I have improved, thus my own personal bias has led me that direction. I also look at the swings I like on video and they seem to have a somewhat stable center.
Interesting the multiple centers been manipulated, for what purpose would you consider manipulating these centers (i.e. solid contact) or ...?
gmbtempe
New
lia41985
New member
1.) Creating the appropriate D plane for the selected shot; and
2.) Power
Lindsey Newman
New
If you ask me (which no one has or should), it's about skill. When you toss a ball to a baby it's from an extremely short distance. When you first start shooting hoops you work from set shots to jump shots to fadeaway jumpers. I feel similar about the golf swing. Some folks need to be almost stationary to find the ball at low point. More skilled folks can use more pivot, lateral motion to create more speed while still finding accuracy with their strike. Athletes with superior skill and hand eye coordination will always have more freedom to interpret how to swing.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Bob Bush has stated the main center is under the left chest cavity for what its worth
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
"
This a little more than saying his post was cryptic. I dont see you over there defending him when your boys take part in their favorite pastime and take a shit on Brian. Sure his post had an edgy-ness to it but why does everyone care? If he's such a nobody like that Barzeski says, why do they care what he thinks about S&T not taking over the world, which was the main point?
This a little more than saying his post was cryptic. I dont see you over there defending him when your boys take part in their favorite pastime and take a shit on Brian. Sure his post had an edgy-ness to it but why does everyone care? If he's such a nobody like that Barzeski says, why do they care what he thinks about S&T not taking over the world, which was the main point?
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