The "Real" Turned Shoulder Plane

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Brian Manzella

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My personal opinion.

I have checked with noted TGM experts besides myself.

They agree.

Here ya go:

106b.jpg

sneadtsp.jpg
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
A point of note....

The picture on the left, is ONLY FOR SHOWING where the turned shoulder plane is fro this golfer, and where she has to "turn to" to "reach" it.

Any other "reference" point on this picture on the left, is entirely ACCIDENTAL.
 
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Tom Bartlett

Administrator
The only problem with these pictures that I can see is that someone is going to say that the camera isn't lined up directly behind him. But if I am not mistaken didn't Snead play a pull draw? So this would in effect be 'down the line' for HIM.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
William Ben Hogan

A Double shift.

Man that plane changing was hazardous, huh?

The bus was much more hazardous, in my opinion, of course.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
When you ASSume, you make an.....

Here is one (of millions) example of a really good reason you don't assume the TURNED SHOUDER PLANE is drawn through anything but the TURNED SHOULDER:
mactsp1.jpg

mactsp4.jpg
 
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Martee

New
Whats with the version 6 photocopy????:)

Think was John Dunigan who went on and on about Hogan and the fact he had a double shift.

When I first took golf up in the early 60's the double shift was what was shown to me. Unfortunately the description given was 2 dimensional, unless you saw someone doing it, it was hard to duplicate. At least by the way that pro explained it.
 
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Tom Bartlett

Administrator
So would you say that the more waist bend the player has at address the more line will be above the arm pit at address and vice versa. Shoulder width would seem to also influence this too. But, the end result is you can't draw the line until the top of the backswing.


The picture in the book also has Diane with her hands on the turned shoulder at address. Is this because the plane was in the way or did Homer think you should have your hands this high at address?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Good ole Martee.

Martee said:
Whats with the version 6 photocopy????

Think was John Dunigan who went on and on about Hogan and the fact he had a double shift.

When I first took golf up in the early 60's the double shift was what was shown to me. Unfortunately the description given was 2 dimensional, unless you saw someone doing it, it was hard to duplicate. At least by the way that pro explained it.
Click to expand...

You can always count on Marty.

I will take it down if Joe tells me to.

Otherwise, I feel this is a point of some debate in the TGM community, and it needs to be clarified for the world of golf's sake.
 
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Martee

New
Sorry Brian, left the smiley face off. Just trying to give you a hard time. I will edit the previous post.

Wouldn't it be true if you did a flat shoulder turn on the back stroke, that the how you are set up, is how it will be defined? (My understanding the flat backstroke shoulder turn wouldn't change its relative defined position)
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
Brian Manzella said:
With correctly—in my opinion—drawn vertical (light blue), Turned Shoulder (yellow) and ELBOW (orange) planes.

hoganplanes.jpg
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Never seen that sequence before....

Left wrist is definitely bent....

Swing is longer...

Clubface seems less open....(no?)...

Year?
 
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rundmc

Banned
birdie_man said:
Never seen that sequence before....

Left wrist is definitely bent....

Swing is longer...

Clubface seems less open....(no?)...

Year?
Click to expand...

This is from Power Golf . . . Not the reprint with the drawings . . . Mr. K used it in his studies. Mine is 1948 copyright.

As much as you are on the forums studying you should own a copy of this book. You can get it off of Amazon cheap. It's great!
 
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DOCW3

New
Brian Manzella said:
98% of 'em draw a line through the shaft, no matter where the shaft is.
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Not sure about the relevancy for this practice but, HK's Inclined Plane definition (golf) is "The through-the-waist "Plane of Rotation" of the Clubshaft as established duing Address Routine."

DRW
 
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DOCW3

New
Tom Bartlett said:
So would you say that the more waist bend the player has at address the more line will be above the arm pit at address and vice versa. Shoulder width would seem to also influence this too. But, the end result is you can't draw the line until the top of the backswing.


The picture in the book also has Diane with her hands on the turned shoulder at address. Is this because the plane was in the way or did Homer think you should have your hands this high at address?
Click to expand...

He repeats the position for the Flat and On Plane Shoulder Turns. I feel the answer is in 12-1-0/12-2-0 Basic Patterns (sixth edition). Would this photo not represent TSP and Zero Plane Angle variation with her being on the preselected Downstroke Clubshaft Plane? There are no specific photos for Zero Shift. However, he did say "Each picture is intended to present the ideal for its subject whether or not anyone on earth has ever achieved it."

BTW, I think you can draw the line at address if the TSP is you target, again with zero shift. If you can't reach what has been preselected he says "it is better to use a steeper Plane."

DRW
 
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tourdeep

tourdeep

New
hoganplanes.jpg


1948 Hogan,

Ok, I don't quite grasp plane variations and correct placement of universally accepted approach to line drawing. What I do see is somewhat proportionate movement, from yellow line to shoulder, and orange to elbow. Are both remaining on its same respective plane? Look at the first and last sequence...

hmmmm.....
 
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