The Release and Divot

[Martee]

Okay this might be stupid but the question surrounding the ‘New Release’ I have is:

Why would a divot of any consequence exist?

The club handle is moving up and in
The forward leaning shaft is being zero out
The shaft kick has the hands and club head sort of equal
The right wrist flattening
The left wrist bending
The angle of approach is minimal

Seems to me that the golfer would be a brusher or sweeper or picker, divots would be very thin at best.

It seems this release gives the idea that you are not to hit down but more level and through.

 

[Erik_K]

Some of the best ball strikers I know take 'thin' or 'skinny' divots. From what I've seen they are also able to work the ball more.

Erik

 

[Robbohank]

I use divot depth as one indicator of my progress in executing the release correctly. Mine have shallowed out a bunch but aren't consistently as thin as I want, due in part to improvements I need to make in the areas of back-extension and not tugging.

I think once you "have it" your divots will indeed be minimal.

 

[bjfox10]

Martee,

I think the key here is that the forward leaning shaft is BEING zero out. Getting lined up can and maybe should happen just after contact. As long as you are working towards normal.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Who picks their irons and hits the ball just as far with the same club taking a good size divot? I certainly don't. My margin for error is lessened when I pick the ball off the ground for a center hit. I agree that if the delivered loft were the same I would prefer the pick so that my attack angle doesn't skew my path to the right.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The ball knocking the club downward after impact is some of it.

 

[Kevin Shields]

The ball knocking the club downward after impact is some of it.

Beat me to it

 

[Martee]

The ball knocking the club downward after impact is some of it.

So are you saying that the deflection of the club head and the loss of club shaft kick (returning to normal) causes a lengthening of the shaft to where a divot takes place as the club head is still traveling to low point or what appear to be a low point?

I am assuming that the concept that club head orbit should be deeper into the ground than what has been the conventional golf wisdom, this would be measured with the club at its fullest extent though while in motion that would not be achieved till after impact. For instance the bowing or club shaft kick cause the effective shaft length to be less than if it was normal (straight).

Where I am heading with this is that it seems that all the examples that have been posted if I recall correctly when a wedge is in hand a divot, big divots seem to fly. The picking clean or just a brush divot seems more apt with longer clubs and then getting a bit deeper with shorter ones?

 

[cwdlaw223]

Beat me to it

Kevin -

How can the ball knock the clubhead downward given the fact the club is imparting force on the ball (instead of the other way around) and the ball is on the clubface for approximately 1/2000th of a second? I hit the ball further taking a healty divot than picking it. BMan has never lead me astrary, but I'm having trouble with the new release concept. I would like a more shallow divot as long as I didn't lose 10-15 yards with my irons.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Thats a question for Paul Wood

How do you know you needed these concepts?

 

[spktho]

Kevin -

How can the ball knock the clubhead downward given the fact the club is imparting force on the ball (instead of the other way around) and the ball is on the clubface for approximately 1/2000th of a second?

The clubhead is imparting a force on the ball, but the ball wants to stay at rest, so it will impart a force on the club while being accelerated. "A body at rest tends to stay at rest, unless acted upon by an outside force."

 

[drewyallop]

The clubhead is imparting a force on the ball, but the ball wants to stay at rest, so it will impart a force on the club while being accelerated. "A body at rest tends to stay at rest, unless acted upon by an outside force."

Is it more accurate to say that there is an equal, opposite force on the clubhead?

 

[mgranato]

Kevin -

How can the ball knock the clubhead downward given the fact the club is imparting force on the ball (instead of the other way around) and the ball is on the clubface for approximately 1/2000th of a second? I hit the ball further taking a healty divot than picking it. BMan has never lead me astrary, but I'm having trouble with the new release concept. I would like a more shallow divot as long as I didn't lose 10-15 yards with my irons.

Ax yourself this... what makes the ball travel the distance it does on your well struck shots?

 

[spktho]

Is it more accurate to say that there is an equal, opposite force on the clubhead?

Maybe, but why is there an equal and opposite force?

 

[grubbs]

Maybe, but why is there an equal and opposite force?

It's the law...

 

[spktho]

It's the law...

and can't you use the 1st law as at least a partial explanation?

 

[cwdlaw223]

I don't need the concepts per se, but I also know that I hit the ball much, much further on average when I take a divot then when I pick it clean. Don't you? I've never heard that the club de-lofts because of impact. Maybe it's new, but it still doesn't change the fact that when I take a divot I hit the ball further because I deloft my club more than when I pick it clean.

 

[BertramSterling]

...and thats the point of this 'new release'. Forward lean delofting the club with a shallow angle of attack.

Delofting the club and then hitting massively downward is the same amount of 'glancing blow' as a neutral angle of attack and no forward lean. You'll only compress the ball more by delofting and hitting more shallow, the divot is incidental.

 

[cwdlaw223]

...and thats the point of this 'new release'. Forward lean delofting the club with a shallow angle of attack.

Delofting the club and then hitting massively downward is the same amount of 'glancing blow' as a neutral angle of attack and no forward lean. You'll only compress the ball more by delofting and hitting more shallow, the divot is incidental.

How is "glancing blow" measured on Trackman??? It isn't. It's all about impact (speed, centerness of hit, spin rate, dynamic loft, launch angle, etc). So how exactly does one have a shallow angle of attack (forget any divots comments) and deloft the clubface? I don't see where Brian explained that in the release video. It might be the effect of the new release, but I don't see an explanation of how the new release causes such impact condition. I deloft the clubface by hitting down with a steep angle of attack. (I don't have a "glancing" blow and can nuke my irons by hitting down on them severely. Why? Because I massively deloft the clubface).

I want to keep the same dynamic loft with a steep swing as with a shallow swing but I cannot figure out how that's possible and still don't after watching the release video. I know some people never get things. I want to learn. BMan is my favorite instructor and I'm not trying to disparage the video. I just don't see how the new release causes a shallow attack angle WHILE massively delofting the clubface.

 

[cwdlaw223]

I just saw Mandarin's post on the geometry of the circle and maybe now I'm getting somewhere. So pulling up on the shaft will help flatten out the attack angle while the clubface is delofted? When I pull up on the shaft my left shoulder gets higher and I get a little chicken-wing in my left arm post-impact.