Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
What everyone is missing is that, in a PROPER geometrical shot, the lowest part of the swing is the outside of the left shoulder.
There are NUMEROUS ways to "move" the low point of the swing due to "error."
The sound of one hand clapping.
- Thread starter mandrin
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What everyone is missing is that, in a PROPER geometrical shot, the lowest part of the swing is the outside of the left shoulder.
There are NUMEROUS ways to "move" the low point of the swing due to "error."
Since this isnt hitting down, I will add my two cents.
The Low Point Geometrically should be defined by the full extension of the Primary Lever and opposite the left shoulder at right angles (in line).
Appearance of the Low Point in front or behind the left shoulder is in reference to the ground and has not taken into account the machine and its alignments. The same holds true for the low point being in the ground, on the surface or in the air, the height of the machine alignments determine this.
This is one reason it is so important to be able to identify and set up at Impact Fix.
The Low Point Geometrically should be defined by the full extension of the Primary Lever and opposite the left shoulder at right angles (in line).
Appearance of the Low Point in front or behind the left shoulder is in reference to the ground and has not taken into account the machine and its alignments. The same holds true for the low point being in the ground, on the surface or in the air, the height of the machine alignments determine this.
This is one reason it is so important to be able to identify and set up at Impact Fix.
palmreader
New
Jim,
I respectfully disagree. If you maintain the alignment at impact fix (i.e. the angle between the shoulder and the left arm/club lever through out the swing, and the shoulder line rotate around the neck/spine, there is no way the low point be opposite the left shoulder. You can try to draw it on a piece of paper as Mandrin has demonstarted. Now, you do some changes during the swing to bring that low point to be opposite to left shoulder, but that is an adjustment one has to make IMO.
David Alford
New
Position of low point depends on the swing model and type of shot being played. If TGM says otherwise...just prove it to yourself by hitting a chip shot off a poor lie. Where do you position the ball? Anywhere near alignment with the left shoulder? Of course not. Pretty much the same for a full shot off a poor lie, or when you want to keep the ball especially low.
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MJ, the topic of this thread was not my video sequence. You brought it up to take another swipe at me. I replied because I don't bluff. And so the attack-rebuttal cycle begins again. I'm sure most readers are not that interested. I respectfully suggest you read Brian's post pertaining to what this forum is about, which is not personal attacks. Take it off the forum. You can always contact me directly. You'll see the sequences soon enough, but I'm going to go to any special trouble, esp. in the next week or so.
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MJ, the topic of this thread was not my video sequence. You brought it up to take another swipe at me. I replied because I don't bluff. And so the attack-rebuttal cycle begins again. I'm sure most readers are not that interested. I respectfully suggest you read Brian's post pertaining to what this forum is about, which is not personal attacks. Take it off the forum. You can always contact me directly. You'll see the sequences soon enough, but I'm going to go to any special trouble, esp. in the next week or so.
David Alford
New
should read "I'm NOT going to go to any special trouble, esp. in the next week or so."
Bear in mind that Impact Fix defines where your shoulder must be at Impact. Whether it rotates around the spine or not, it has to return to the same height at Impact that it was at Impact Fix.
If the ball is positioned directly under your shoulder, then Low Point is at, or slightly under, the ball - and you'd take no divot. If the ball is positioned further back, it's not at Low Point (which is still under your shoulder) - and your divot should start in front of the ball and continue through Low Point.
IOW, start at Impact Fix with the ball in the middle of your stance. Now, what do you have to do to move the clubhead under your shoulder? Either: (a) start digging turf
, or (b) raise your shoulder. But (b) negates the requirement that Impact Fix is a rehearsal of where you want to be at Impact!
birdie_man
New
Ya that IS the other part of the story Jim.
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But it can't always be by "error", can it?
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Yoda himself recommends a varying ball position last time I heard him speak of it.
palmreader
New
quote:Originally posted by TGMfan
IOW, start at Impact Fix with the ball in the middle of your stance. Now, what do you have to do to move the clubhead under your shoulder? Either: (a) start digging turf
TGFman, you hit the nail on the head. If you place the ball in the middle, and go to impact fix and then swing, you return to impact fix, and the low point is slighlty ahead of the ball, so it makes a divot, but the low point is not opposite to the shoulder. After the impact (where the shoulder is at impact fix), shoulder start rising, and so does the club head. IMO.
palmreader
New
TGMfan, Sorry, I mis-spelled your name as TGFman (but it sounds good...)
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Tee a ball and pick up your driver. Now position the ball in the middle of your stance. Next, without bending your left wrist through impact, hit "up" on the ball.
Let me know if you can do it
Let me know if you can do it
David Alford
New
Thank him for the 8x10 sand trap glossy & autograph he sent to me thru Wensel.
David Alford
New
Easier than seeing 6bee's. Let's see how easy it is to get yours. Can you post it?
mandrin
New
Since Brian does not explain, I will give my ideas. Albeit, likely, different from Brian’s.
From the top of the backswing the club/arms/shoulder ensemble, initially, operates rather like one part. The effective center of rotation is then situated somewhere in the neck area.
Through impact the club has by far the greatest angular velocity, compared to arms and shoulders. This makes the effective center of rotation to be close to the wrists.
To put it more scientifically, the effective swing center is determined by the instantaneous radius of curvature of the clubhead trajectory through space.
If you shift away from thinking in terms of left shoulder and more towards the real effective swing center you will find more readily logic answers to your kind of questions.
mandrin
rwh
New
quote:Originally posted by mandrin
Since Brian does not explain, I will give my ideas. Albeit, likely, different from Brian’s.
From the top of the backswing the club/arms/shoulder ensemble, initially, operates rather like one part. The effective center of rotation is then situated somewhere in the neck area.
Through impact the club has by far the greatest angular velocity, compared to arms and shoulders. This makes the effective center of rotation to be close to the wrists.
To put it more scientifically, the effective swing center is determined by the instantaneous radius of curvature of the clubhead trajectory through space.
If you shift away from thinking in terms of left shoulder and more towards the real effective swing center you will find more readily logic answers to your kind of questions.
mandrin
Aren't there at least two centers -- i.e, one center for the motion of the body and one center for the arc of the clubhead?
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