The Talent Code - meylin & golf

[softconsult]

You don't, I do. I guess my standards are higher than yours.

At least, golfdad, laughs about it when he says I should have seen the
first draft. He is acknowledging that this is not how he writes in his
professional life.

 

[ScottRob]

My standards relate more to preserving a person's dignity. I do not think it is OK to castigate a person based on your perception of their ability to communicate. His gracious response to your rebuke is a credit to him, not a wave-off of your persnickity neurosis. Have you taken Brian to task for the occasional mispelled/typo? I suspect you relish the opportunity to impose your draconian sense of thought expression. If you sent PMs I would consider the possibility that you were invested in the opportunity of helping a fellow poster along. Alas, I think not. I probably should have sent this in a PM.

 

[mandrin]

Sorry ej20, but I have to disagree to a certain degree. Of course there are some who are incapable, regardless of environment, of attaining an elite performance level. Agreed.

However, taking mandrin's interpretation of those books on "performance development" one could deduce that the point the author is making is that ALL of those who are capable of elite level performance do NOT attain it. Only some. The reason lies in how much their environment, including the structure and nature of their practice, actually led to 1. improved performance AND (according to this hypothesis) 2. the production of myelin. Those two variables appear to be interlinked but possibly seperate factors: ie improved perfomance is in some way linked to to the production of myelin but myelin can be produced WITHOUT improved performance. Right mandrin??

wulsy,

Any activity, be it saying a prayer, playing the piano, swinging a golf club, learning grammar or picking one's nose, will result in electrical pulses being fired and transmitted through fibers in the specific neural circuits associated with each these specific activities. Hence for any activity whatsoever there are electrical pulses being produced in very specific areas of the brain.

Every time there are electrical pulses there is production of myelin which very slowly with time is wrapping around these fibers. Myelin is acting like a very good neural insulator and prevents the electrical signal to disperse in the brain.

Scientists have recently been very interested in this process as it is now being increasingly associated with talent. Something previously always being discussed in terms of being either primarily a matter of genes or caused by appropriate environment.

Researchers are now convinced to have an answer to this long standing question about talent and consider a talented person as someone who has developed a very great quantity of myelin in certain parts of his brain corresponding to the activity in which he has developed his talent.

Einstein's brain showed a great amount of myelin. Initially not much was thought of this as previously attention was on the quantity of neurons and synapses. With new research however the large myelin quantity in his brain took on a rather different meaning.

The author, Daniel Coyle of 'The Talent Code', spent two years traveling all around the world to find out about talent hotbeds in various activities, tennis, baseball, golf, education, math, music, etc., to find out more about talent such as the environmental factors, teaching aspects etc.

Summary -

-Talent is now linked with myelin in the brain.

-Myelin is universal and produced by all of us.

-Talent can be developed if one knows how to produce large quantities of myelin in the neural circuits specific to the talent to be developed.

-Generating myelin in such quantities takes a long time, deep practice, ignition, stimulating environment and special coaching.

-It appears hence that talent is now to be taken as a democratic issue not limited to a few, blessed by birth.

- Difficult, yes, but a very stimulating perspective for those who are passionate and want to climb the steep mountain trail all to the top.

 

[ej20]

ej, that's not what I mean.

I'm talking about guys like you and me and some of our buddies who could have been better than we became IF we had sussed out earlier in our lives how to maximise our potential. This would have been achieved by practicing better coupled with better coaching. In this enviromnent it MAY have been possible to discover skills that we didn't know we had in us.

Yes but I don't think that is what the book is saying.It basically says that talent can be nurtured and developed from nothing or very little by growing myelin in the brain.It is not about discovering "hidden talent"Einstein's brain was said to have much more myelin than other brains.

So all you hopeless hackers out there can rejoice.Just grow some "golf" myelin in your brain and become talented.lol

 

[golfdad]

Scientists have recently been very interested in this process as it is now being increasingly associated with talent. Something previously always being discussed in terms of being either primarily a matter of genes or caused by appropriate environment.

mandrin, perhaps not as much as with golf teaching, the scientific literature comes up with opposing findings on a daily basis. one study may conclude that 5 mg is effective and safe; another indicates that 5 mg causes unacceptable side effects.

here is a recent study that suggests a significant role that genetics plays. Brain Images Reveal the Secret to Higher IQ - Technology Review it begs the question that if some people are born to succeed in certain discipline and roles of nature vs nurture.

perhaps we can look at tiger woods and wonder what is up with his myelin. from his record, not many can doubt that he must be wired heavily for golf in his brain. but has his myelin during this slump changed qualitatively and quantitatively? or is the haney myelin still dueling the foley myelin?

further, the phrase "associated with talent" can mean many things to many people.

a kid can be born with a very high IQ. he can speak and write very early naturally. is that talent?

a kid is born with so so IQ, but through effort and hard work and good education, he achieves success. is that also talent?

can brain myelin study tell those 2 apart?

what i cannot accept is the fact that sometimes a person who you think is not that smart actually beats you in golf. how in the world can that happen?

 

[mandrin]

My standards relate more to preserving a person's dignity. I do not think it is OK to castigate a person based on your perception of their ability to communicate. His gracious response to your rebuke is a credit to him, not a wave-off of your persnickity neurosis. Have you taken Brian to task for the occasional mispelled/typo? I suspect you relish the opportunity to impose your draconian sense of thought expression. If you sent PMs I would consider the possibility that you were invested in the opportunity of helping a fellow poster along. Alas, I think not. I probably should have sent this in a PM.

ScottRob,

I do agree that one should be very tolerant and foremost be civilized. Small errors are frequent and inconsequential. However this is not about some occasional spelling error, but a systematic lack of capitalization making it fastidious to read long paragraphs. Let's turn the argument around and perhaps consider that purposely writing with lack of capitalization is not showing respect for those reading your posts. Perhaps normal for an adolescent wanting to show being different from the crowd but an adult, educated and all, this is rather a surprising way to post on forums.

Some time back we had a Bronco Billy who systematically wrote only in the space reserved for the title and, notwithstanding being admonished frequently, never changed this way of posting. Society functions smoothly by accepting to do many things the same way to avoid confusion and augment chances for understanding. Is it so difficult to write correctly and make live easier for those who read your posts by simply starting each new sentence with a capital letter as we all learned in primary school. Also small paragraphs make one's posts so much more pleasant to read. It that also so difficult? Very small things not requiring much myelin at all.

 

[birly-shirly]

@ej20 - I think you're mostly correct in your interpretation of Coyle's book. But you don't accept his conclusions, is that fair?

It sounds like you're saying, "Some folks just don't have the innate talent to succeed."

That does contradict what Coyle writes - but I don't know if you're just relying on common-sense observation, or something more empirical. Coyle seems to have done quite a lot of research, and uses several of the same sources that Malcolm Gladwell cited for Outliers.

It would be a mistake though, in my opinion, to interpret Coyle or Gladwell as saying that "growing" talent is easy. Democratic - yes. But not easy. In some ways, the "innate talent" explanation is a much easier path to success. But it doesn't explain the workrate of such apparently innately talented athletes as Woods, Norman, Beckham or Federer.

 

[golfdad]

ScottRob,

I do agree that one should be very tolerant and foremost be civilized. Small errors are frequent and inconsequential. However this is not about some occasional spelling error, but a systematic lack of capitalization making it fastidious to read long paragraphs. Let's turn the argument around and perhaps consider that purposely writing with lack of capitalization is not showing respect for those reading your posts. Perhaps normal for an adolescent wanting to show being different from the crowd but an adult, educated and all, this is rather a surprising way to post on forums.

Some time back we had a Bronco Billy who systematically wrote only in the space reserved for the title and, notwithstanding being admonished frequently, never changed this way of posting. Society functions smoothly by accepting to do many things the same way to avoid confusion and augment chances for understanding. Is it so difficult to write correctly and make live easier for those who read your posts by simply starting each new sentence with a capital letter as we all learned in primary school. Also small paragraphs make one's posts so much more pleasant to read. It that also so difficult? Very small things not requiring much myelin at all.

i find it interesting that a thread starter would trivialize one's own thread by focusing on,,,hmmm, how shall i put it,,,stupid writing style of a stupid person.

 

[ej20]

@ej20 - I think you're mostly correct in your interpretation of Coyle's book. But you don't accept his conclusions, is that fair?

It sounds like you're saying, "Some folks just don't have the innate talent to succeed."

That does contradict what Coyle writes - but I don't know if you're just relying on common-sense observation, or something more empirical. Coyle seems to have done quite a lot of research, and uses several of the same sources that Malcolm Gladwell cited for Outliers.

It would be a mistake though, in my opinion, to interpret Coyle or Gladwell as saying that "growing" talent is easy. Democratic - yes. But not easy. In some ways, the "innate talent" explanation is a much easier path to success. But it doesn't explain the workrate of such apparently innately talented athletes as Woods, Norman, Beckham or Federer.

To be fair I haven't read the book so take what I said for what it's worth.I might get the book though as it sounds interesting and lord knows I could do with a bit more talent.lol

To be honest though,I doubt very much that myelin can be produced in significant amounts over a short term of time.By short term,I mean months or years.Unless it can be scientifically proven,I will remain sceptical.

World class Brazilian soccer players are plentiful because it is a hugely popular sport over there and just about every kid plays it and from a very young age.Of course more talent will be discovered than say in the USA where very few kids take up the game.I will concede however,that perhaps because generations have played the game,genetics have perhaps passed on more soccer talent myelin from one generation to another so Brazilian kids could be just born with soccer talent and myelin.

But can a thirty year old talentless hack develop enough myelin to play scratch golf?I won't say no as I always like to have an open mind but I will remain sceptical.

 

[birly-shirly]

I'd recommend the book. You sound interested enough in many of the issues it covers that you'd enjoy it. And if you're still sceptical after reading it, I'd be interested to hear your reservations.

 

[golfdad]

To be fair I haven't read the book so take what I said for what it's worth.I might get the book though as it sounds interesting and lord knows I could do with a bit more talent.lol

To be honest though,I doubt very much that myelin can be produced in significant amounts over a short term of time.By short term,I mean months or years.Unless it can be scientifically proven,I will remain sceptical.

World class Brazilian soccer players are plentiful because it is a hugely popular sport over there and just about every kid plays it and from a very young age.Of course more talent will be discovered than say in the USA where very few kids take up the game.I will concede however,that perhaps because generations have played the game,genetics have perhaps passed on more soccer talent myelin from one generation to another so Brazilian kids could be just born with soccer talent and myelin.

But can a thirty year old talentless hack develop enough myelin to play scratch golf?I won't say no as I always like to have an open mind but I will remain sceptical.

astute observation. as to the brazilian soccer playing tradition, another term more appropriate than genetics is perhaps familial. or even cultural.

who knows. perhaps those better soccer players get laid more often and have a higher chance to pass on genes that are responsible for good foot eye coordination

 

[spktho]

wulsy,

Any activity, be it saying a prayer, playing the piano, swinging a golf club, learning grammar or picking one's nose, will result in electrical pulses being fired and transmitted through fibers in the specific neural circuits associated with each these specific activities. Hence for any activity whatsoever there are electrical pulses being produced in very specific areas of the brain.

Every time there are electrical pulses there is production of myelin which very slowly with time is wrapping around these fibers. Myelin is acting like a very good neural insulator and prevents the electrical signal to disperse in the brain.

Scientists have recently been very interested in this process as it is now being increasingly associated with talent. Something previously always being discussed in terms of being either primarily a matter of genes or caused by appropriate environment.

Researchers are now convinced to have an answer to this long standing question about talent and consider a talented person as someone who has developed a very great quantity of myelin in certain parts of his brain corresponding to the activity in which he has developed his talent.

Einstein's brain showed a great amount of myelin. Initially not much was thought of this as previously attention was on the quantity of neurons and synapses. With new research however the large myelin quantity in his brain took on a rather different meaning.

The author, Daniel Coyle of 'The Talent Code', spent two years traveling all around the world to find out about talent hotbeds in various activities, tennis, baseball, golf, education, math, music, etc., to find out more about talent such as the environmental factors, teaching aspects etc.

Summary -

-Talent is now linked with myelin in the brain.

-Myelin is universal and produced by all of us.

-Talent can be developed if one knows how to produce large quantities of myelin in the neural circuits specific to the talent to be developed.

-Generating myelin in such quantities takes a long time, deep practice, ignition, stimulating environment and special coaching.

-It appears hence that talent is now to be taken as a democratic issue not limited to a few, blessed by birth.

- Difficult, yes, but a very stimulating perspective for those who are passionate and want to climb the steep mountain trail all to the top.

All good points and we must understand that myelin production is reliant on genetics and on the number of cells that have the myelin DNA sequence(s) turned on along with the availability of the lipids and other substances needed to form the myelin molecule(s). Not to mention the number of neuronal connections in place along with the production of neural transmitters and Na/K channels within the axonal membrane. There are obviously more factors involved that are also influenced by the environment. So, although all hope is not lost, some individuals will develop faster than others.

 

[mandrin]

i find it interesting that a thread starter would trivialize one's own thread by focusing on,,,hmmm, how shall i put it,,,stupid writing style of a stupid person.

golfdad,

In your posts you have a tendency to overreact a bit. I am not mentioning people being stupid, rather instead that civility should prime. But asking a simple thing like normal capitalization, showing respect for fellow posters, is not beyond anyone.

 

[golfdad]

golfdad,

In your posts you have a tendency to overreact a bit. I am not mentioning people being stupid, rather instead that civility should prime. But asking a simple thing like normal capitalization, showing respect for fellow posters, is not beyond anyone.

hello, it is nice reading your postings even though on this thread i find them lacking in many areas. but i admit they have entertainment value for people who want to read something. i have attempted repeatedly to stay on the topic of myelin and talent and you have repeatedly attempted to stay off the topic. i wonder if you truly want to tell the way it is based on your reading on myelin or is this format an ego trip for you. i never doubt your intention to inform others, but i question whether you are fit for discussion and debate.

i hope i read more of better ones in the future, in areas where you can demonstrate true expertise and insight. this is my last post here since it seems to distract you quite a bit. it is not fair to your followers and other posters with interests to help their game and their students' game. but consider this, as the saying goes, holding grudges is like being stung to death by a bee.

cheers! go mandrin's myelin!

ps. i just showed my secretary your complaint post on my typing. she totally agrees with you so you must be onto something

 

[mandrin]

astute observation. as to the brazilian soccer playing tradition, another term more appropriate than genetics is perhaps familial. or even cultural.

who knows. perhaps those better soccer players get laid more often and have a higher chance to pass on genes that are responsible for good foot eye coordination

golfdad,

Factors such as climate, tradition, cultural aspects, etc., are usually invoked to explain when there is much talent. However they don't explain that not long ago, out of nowhere, lots of Russian tennis players competed on the highest levels or the flooding of South Korean golfers onto the LPGA scene.

The Brazilian soccer players had something very unique. They use a very unique training method called 'futebol de salao', its modern incarnation being called 'futsal'. It is considered the incubator of the Brazilian soul. Futsal is considered to be deep practice typically required for accelerating myelin production.

 

[mandrin]

hello, it is nice reading your postings even though on this thread i find them lacking in many areas. but i admit they have entertainment value for people who want to read something. i have attempted repeatedly to stay on the topic of myelin and talent and you have repeatedly attempted to stay off the topic. i wonder if you truly want to tell the way it is based on your reading on myelin or is this format an ego trip for you. i never doubt your intention to inform others, but i question whether you are fit for discussion and debate.

i hope i read more of better ones in the future, in areas where you can demonstrate true expertise and insight. this is my last post here since it seems to distract you quite a bit. it is not fair to your followers and other posters with interests to help their game and their students' game. but consider this, as the saying goes, holding grudges is like being stung to death by a bee.

cheers! go mandrin's myelin!

ps. i just showed my secretary your complaint post on my typing. she totally agrees with you so you must be onto something

golfdad,

Not only are you over reacting but you are are also changing opinion extremely quick. In one post I am a hero and almost in the next one, it has suddenly all changed, and I am, for all practical purpose, a zero.

I hold no grudge. You are only one of a select few who still write posts which are interesting to read, even more so since I don't quit agree. It inspires for further posting.

ps., Just for fun try to write starting each phrase with a capital letter. Your secretary and clients will definitely have more appreciation reading your prose.

 

[birly-shirly]

this thread increasingly reminds me of one of those odd-couple romantic comedies in which the 2 main characters bicker and nitpick whilst inexorably falling in love.

everyone else can see that they're made for each other...

 

[islandgolf629]

You guys want more myelin? Drink a mixture of olive and rapeseed oils.

There, that was my contribution to this thread for the day.

Now back to removing several protons from this big pile of lead on my floor.

 

[wulsy]

Here's a great business proposition:

Myelin enriched Isotonic Drinks Drink before practice.

 

[Frans@France]

But can a thirty year old talentless hack develop enough myelin to play scratch golf?I won't say no as I always like to have an open mind but I will remain sceptical.

In the Netherlands some golf teachers tried to prove that it was possible. They asked three persons to join them in an one year free program. Age was no problem, you only needed to spend 5 hours per day on golf.

3 people joined. 2 men 1 woman. After a few months 1 person stopped due to private problems. The one left (age 40) started index 32 and ended index 7. The woman (age 32) did not had a index and ended index 6.