the worst swing thing I've ever experimented with on the range?

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niblick1

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No not the crackpot swing thing I tried several years ago after finding a crackpot website on the internet before joining the land of the sane.

I've been very curious about the adding left wrist bend thing in the downswing and then taking it out by impact ever since Mathew and Brian talked about it here and others have posted about it here. I spent several hours reading parts of Five Lessons again, looking at Hogan and Garcia video to see if I could identify players doing it, and have now tried doing it for several practice sessions (no doubt incorrectly).

Ok, to be honest I have no idea what I might actually do in my own downswing as far as left wrist bend goes, but trying to consciously do this may be the worst thing for my swing I can possibly imagine. It's comical how bad I was hitting it. Some day I do want someone to show me how some players actually add additional left wrist bend in their downswing and take it out by impact.

And the best things ever when my swing gets screwed up by experimenting on the range? Lead with the hips to start the swing, exaggerate the LCT (listen for the club hitting the speed bumps in the backswing), use a SD backswing with no pop-out, feel the left thumb under the shaft at the top of the backswing. Feel like I am trying to swing like Bobby Jones. Use a symmetrical back-and-forth motion.

Worst thing for your swing?
 
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cmartingolf

cmartingolf

New
Back when I was 14, I had a similar story to you. I thought about Hogan's cupped left wrist and rotated forearm and hit it all over the yard. The bowed left wrist...that provided some sweet strikes and oddly, I worked away from it.

At the time I didn't FEEL like I had the speed to strike the ball like that and hit it far too!

Whoops.
 
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dsmith2296

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Perhaps I can add some perspective to my use of left wrist bend, although I did admonish you against it here:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/147493-post17.html

In my quest to achieve max accumulator lag, I was experimenting with wrist/grip positions that, while my hands were on the downswing as they passed my right hip, would allow the clubhead to still be straight up in the air.- I was statically posing a very dynamic position of extreme lag. I found that I personally could not statically achieve the extreme lag "look" with a FLW. But I could if I weakend my right hand grip, strengthened my left hand grip and bent my left wrist. You can try this right now in your office or home. Try to strike a pose of the most rediculous accumulator lag possible with a FLW, then try it as I described.

In a vacuum, this does achieve the desired result, especially for me when I down loaded the angles. Its disastrous if you throw it away early though. As side note, you don't consciously try to remove left wrist bend- just load the bend on the way down and pull the butt of the club passed the ball before its released.

Literally 2,000 range balls later, I am now personally making a bent left wrist with a strong left hand grip work for me.

With your results, I would ignore it forever.

As for me, the worst results I ever got were while trying to achieve max accum lag with a FLW.
 
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niblick1

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dsmith2296 said:
Perhaps I can add some perspective to my use of left wrist bend, although I did admonish you against it here:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/147493-post17.html

In my quest to achieve max accumulator lag, I was experimenting with wrist/grip positions that, while my hands were on the downswing as they passed my right hip, would allow the clubhead to still be straight up in the air.- I was statically posing a very dynamic position of extreme lag. I found that I personally could not statically achieve the extreme lag "look" with a FLW. But I could if I weakend my right hand grip, strengthened my left hand grip and bent my left wrist. You can try this right now in your office or home. Try to strike a pose of the most rediculous accumulator lag possible with a FLW, then try it as I described.
Click to expand...

Yep, that part I get. I spent a lot of time trying to figure this out and looking in the mirror to see how to add the extra lag this way.

I think it's just an example of how some things work for some people and not for others. I think the peculiar weaknesses of my swing don't work well with this approach.

I enjoy fiddling around with possibilties to improve, or even just learn, and have found the discussion with you and others on this very interesting.
 
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ej20

New
I truly believe the great players who had enormous accumumaltor lag such as Sergio and Hogan did so because they had incredibly flexible wrists and not because they cheated by cupping the wrist.I read somewhere Sergio can bend his left wrist back 60 degrees against the 30 degrees of the average golfer.

Sergio does not bend his left wrist on the downswing.I am so sure I am not even going to bother posting a video.

I don't believe Hogan did either but I am not going to bet my house on it because most videos from his era are too fuzzy to be absolutely sure.

Bending the left wrist on the downswing is asking for trouble.
 
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ej20

New
Just to remove any doubt.....

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nMawJWLnlLM&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nMawJWLnlLM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
 
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ej20

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I think the guy who had the most flexible wrist was Trevino.He bowed his left wrist and still got great accumulator lag.Very hard to do as bowing decreases the ability to cock.

David Toms bows the left wrist coming down and has little acc. lag.
 
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ej20

New
I think maybe Sadlowski plays with a bent left wrist.But he plays with a very strong grip and will have a cupped look.

Maybe thats the way to play with a cupped wrist.Super strengthen your grip and reverse roll.
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

New
Wow, is this an interesting thread for me. 1st off that video of sergio is after years with butch cause when he first came out, he had a ton of bent left wrist.

I have a bent left wrist and a ton of lag and it does lead to ton of right shots when I don't pivot well enough to give my wrist enough time to straighten:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dzD1jRJkVPA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dzD1jRJkVPA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This video of me would be an example of one showing just that.

Until recently, I had always thought it was a problem with "timing" but it is only pivot. The more pivot I make the more time I have and the less I flip. I don't know if teaching it is right or wrong but it sure does create speed if done correctly. It is definitely a pullers motion. I guess tgm calls that swinging but i can tell you it is all pulling and if you can pivot and pull, pow very solid and powerful.
 
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ej20

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ggjpc,

It's hard to tell from a front on view if your left wrist is bent or not.

And are you sure an early Sergio bent his left wrist?Here is a video of what looks like an early Sergio.....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0sZ6QQAjc0M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0sZ6QQAjc0M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
ggsjpc

ggsjpc

New
ej20 said:
ggjpc,

It's hard to tell from a front on view if your left wrist is bent or not.

And are you sure an early Sergio bent his left wrist?Here is a video of what looks like an early Sergio.....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0sZ6QQAjc0M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0sZ6QQAjc0M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Click to expand...

i think it's easier to tell from a front on view. from down the line it looks like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7fUThPeJW4I&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7fUThPeJW4I&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

to me fairly flat.

from face on, like this:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CkIXiWXguAY&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CkIXiWXguAY&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


This, to me, is clearly bent. Maybe we are comparing apples and oranges. I'm looking face on and maybe you're looking down the line.
 
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ej20

New
ggsjpc,

I think it makes better sense that DTL is a better angle to judge how flat or bent the left wrist is.I don't think I will get a lot of debate on this.It's not really comparing apples with oranges.

It only appears your left wrist is bent from a front on view because you also have so much angle like sergio.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
My take on a bent left wrist is you better have a transition that flattens it automatically. You also should cross the line a bit as well. I call it a double closed. Bent left wrist closes the face to the plane and crossing the line puts the shaft on top of the plane. The players who do this have a transition that works both of them "back under" toward the plane and hit hard fades. The idea that a bent left wrist opens the face is nonsense. It just isnt for evryone, in fact, it isnt for many people.
 
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