Think about THIS! ....

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Brian Manzella

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I can throw an NFL football over 40 yards right-handed, and maybe 10 left-handed.

I can hit a 7-iron 160 yards hitting or swinging with two hands on the club, 80 yards left-hand only, but only 40 right-hand only HITTING and 30 righthand only SWINGING (which DOES hurt the elbow just like Homer said).

What does this mean?

You use more LEFT arm in hitting than right arm in left hand swinging...

Right?;)
 
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6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I can throw an NFL football over 40 yards right-handed, and maybe 10 left-handed.

I can hit a 7-iron 160 yards hitting or swinging with two hands on the club, 80 yards left-hand only, but only 40 right-hand only HITTING and 30 righthand only SWINGING (which DOES hurt the elbow just like Homer said).

What does this mean?

You use more LEFT arm in hitting than right arm in left hand swinging...

Right?;)
Click to expand...

The left arm has a mechanical advantage the right arm hasn't. The left has two levers - very powerful. Wedges, levers, pulleys, no wonder the "Machine rules." Almost as good as my screw - LOL.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I can throw an NFL football over 40 yards right-handed, and maybe 10 left-handed.

I can hit a 7-iron 160 yards hitting or swinging with two hands on the club, 80 yards left-hand only, but only 40 right-hand only HITTING and 30 righthand only SWINGING (which DOES hurt the elbow just like Homer said).

What does this mean?

You use more LEFT arm in hitting than right arm in left hand swinging...

Right?;)
Click to expand...

1. Only the Right Arm can actually "Hit" because only the Right Arm is in a position to push (1-F).

2. You hit it longer with Left Arm only swing because you have a longer lever and a maximum Moment Arm. Also, since your surgery, you now have a bionic Left Shoulder. :)
 
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MizunoJoe

New
Brian,

The problem here is that in the left arm only swing, the left arm is not inert as in a two handed left arm swing. The right arm in the two handed left arm swing, is used to transfer the motion of the right shoulder to the inert left arm. So, without the right arm, you CAN'T make a proper left arm swing. Without the left arm, you cannot make a proper two handed right arm hit, because you are pushing the inert left arm through impact.

The answer is NO. The right arm is absolutely essential in the two handed left arm swing as a transfer agent. The left arm is absolutely essential in the two handed right arm hit as the connection to the swing center and for supplying accumulators #2 and #3.

They are equally important.
 
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rundmc

Banned
I would say that only the right arm is in a position to hit or push. With the left arm "always swinging," you can still use the pivot to pressure PP4 driving accumulators 2, 3, & 4. Also the throw out action of CF and the primary and secondary levers are intact. You can pull a rope effectively but you can't push it.

Wouldn't throwing a football be more like "right arm swinging?" I think throwing a frisbee may be a better example. Wonder if you could throw a frisbee farther left handed like a swinging motion than you could in a right arm "side arm" motion?
 
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FanofHogan

New
This is somewhat off topic but I once heard a scientist of sorts on TV once say that the human body is meant or built to do athletic things left handed. Throw a baseball, swing a bat, roll a bowling ball etc. I cant remember every detail of why he felt that was the case, but always wondered about it.
 
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holenone

Banned
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I can throw an NFL football over 40 yards right-handed, and maybe 10 left-handed.

I can hit a 7-iron 160 yards hitting or swinging with two hands on the club, 80 yards left-hand only, but only 40 right-hand only HITTING and 30 righthand only SWINGING (which DOES hurt the elbow just like Homer said).

What does this mean?

You use more LEFT arm in hitting than right arm in left hand swinging...

Right?;)

[Bold by Holenone/Yoda.]
Click to expand...


Right, but...not in the sense that the Left Arm is used to actively Power either of the Right Arm Strokes.

Swinging or Hitting, the Left Arm is essentially inert. Despite the fact that it contributes little muscularly, it nevertheless performs a very important function: Namely, it serves as part of the Primary Lever Assembly (Left Arm and Club) and accordingly, the Radius of the Stroke.

1. The Swinger's Left Arm Throw-Out Centrifugal Power is essentially the Transfer of Momentum from the Body Turn (2-K). In addition to retaining the advantage of Radius Power (6-B-4-0), this Momentum Transfer serves as a very powerful deterrent against Release Deceleration.

2. The Hitter's Right Arm Drive-Out Muscular Power forfeits Momentum Transfer -- and its near-immunity from Release Deceleration -- in exchange for a stable Right Shoulder Launching Pad (for the Driving Right Arm). Which is fine...until you also remove the inert Left Arm. This destroys the Primary Lever Assembly; shortens the Stroke Radius (from the normal Left Shoulder Center to a new Right Elbow Center); and dramatically reduces the Effective Clubhead Mass (2-M-2-2).

3. The Right Arm Swinger's Right Arm Throw-Out Centrifugal Power retains the advantage of Momentum Transfer, but suffers the same great loss of Stroke Radius (and Effective Clubhead Mass) as does the Hitter's Drive-Out Muscle Power.

In all three cases, the removal of one arm or the other makes Extensor Action (6-B-1-D) impossible. The result is a total loss of this Non-Accelerating Thrust (6-C-0-2) and its contribution to Power Package mass throughout the Stroke (especially during Impact where it offers considerable resistance to Impact Deceleration).
 
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bantamben1

New
quote:Originally posted by brianman

I can throw an NFL football over 40 yards right-handed, and maybe 10 left-handed.

I can hit a 7-iron 160 yards hitting or swinging with two hands on the club, 80 yards left-hand only, but only 40 right-hand only HITTING and 30 righthand only SWINGING (which DOES hurt the elbow just like Homer said).

What does this mean?

You use more LEFT arm in hitting than right arm in left hand swinging...

Right?;)
Click to expand...
thats strange a smooth 7 iron for me goes about 170 two handed but i can hit it about 140 with just my right hand havent noticed if i was hitting or swinging my left on the other hand is much less coordinated and i dont think i could hit it 60 yards its to hard to make a crisp impact with my left
 
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Ringer

New
Johnny Miller in his prime used to wail away and hit drivers around 250 with just left arm swing. I was once around 210 with it when I did it all the time.

Good reasoning as always Lynn. Glad to hear the TGM explanation... and I would agree with you in the TGM frame of reference. But that doesn't mean I agree with it in my own principles and understanding of the swing. Primarilly because I don't agree that the left arm can only be passive during a right arm stroke. I see the stresses as being quite possibly equal on both the left and right arms if the upper arms are the primary motivators.

Awww crap.. I'm starting to fail at my oath.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by Ringer

Johnny Miller in his prime used to wail away and hit drivers around 250 with just left arm swing. I was once around 210 with it when I did it all the time.

Good reasoning as always Lynn. Glad to hear the TGM explanation... and I would agree with you in the TGM frame of reference. But that doesn't mean I agree with it in my own principles and understanding of the swing. Primarilly because I don't agree that the left arm can only be passive during a right arm stroke. I see the stresses as being quite possibly equal on both the left and right arms if the upper arms are the primary motivators.

Awww crap.. I'm starting to fail at my oath.
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Steve,

Please clarify. Are you saying it's not physically possible for the left arm to be essentially inert, or, you simply don't prefer to do it that way?
 
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Ringer

New
quote:Originally posted by rwh
Steve,

Please clarify. Are you saying it's not physically possible for the left arm to be essentially inert, or, you simply don't prefer to do it that way?
Click to expand...

It's because I believe there is a third option from a left arm or right arm dominant swing. I believe that the arms can be viewed as one whole structure, not as two indepenedent ones.

Imagine that I have just welded a triangle of steel to a straight rod of steel (in the fassion that your arms and shoulders are welded to your spine). If I were to twist the straight rod, both sides of the trialge are being stressed. The left is being pulled, while the right is being pushed. BOTH sides of the steel triangle are in use and both are passive actually somewhat passive. However they are activly retaining their form... making them both active.
 
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densikat

New
Ringer, are you talking about the downswing? Both arms cannot be active as in a push/pull sense.. You cant push the right arm against a pulling left arm, it would be kind of pointless if you could.
 
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corky05

New
This triangle structure would be very easy to build if you were an engineer. I would imagine they could have built a club testing machine like "Iron Byron" using this welded triangle as part of the machine.
Why do you think they didn't? Pretty obvious. What does the "Iron Byron" resemble?
 
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Ringer

New
quote:Originally posted by corky05

This triangle structure would be very easy to build if you were an engineer. I would imagine they could have built a club testing machine like "Iron Byron" using this welded triangle as part of the machine.
Why do you think they didn't? Pretty obvious. What does the "Iron Byron" resemble?
Click to expand...

Because Iron Byron does not resemble the structure of the human body. If they wanted to study the movment of the human body, then they would have designed it differently. They designed it to make continually identical swings to test equipment. That makes fewer components rather important. 1 arm is preferable to 2 when dealing with repetition. However, the human body has the triangle in place of the steel rod. You may believe that the "1 arm" is the left arm, but the center of the left arm is rotating around an axis, where as in iron byron, the center of the arm IS the axis. Again pointing out the difference between the human body and iron byron. Remember, Iron Byron was not designed to study the human body in the golf swing, but only equipment.
 
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Ringer

New
quote:Originally posted by densikat

Ringer, are you talking about the downswing? Both arms cannot be active as in a push/pull sense.. You cant push the right arm against a pulling left arm, it would be kind of pointless if you could.
Click to expand...

So then in my model with a triangle welded to a steel rod, which of the two sides of the triangle would bear the stress? Is the left side of the triangle pulling, or is the right pushing? Or is it possible that both are doing both?
 
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corky05

New
Your model doesn't emulate the G.O.L.F. Swing I'm familiar with? Iron Byron most certainly resembles the left shoulder, left arm, and flailing golf club. Look Again.
 
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corky05

New
Couldn't have said it better, myself! Congratulations, Ringer! Maybe the fog will lift? Who doesn't want repetition in their golf swing?

And by the way, Iron Byron was built to emulate human form.

quote:Originally posted by Ringer

quote:Originally posted by corky05

This triangle structure would be very easy to build if you were an engineer. I would imagine they could have built a club testing machine like "Iron Byron" using this welded triangle as part of the machine.
Why do you think they didn't? Pretty obvious. What does the "Iron Byron" resemble?
Click to expand...

Because Iron Byron does not resemble the structure of the human body. If they wanted to study the movment of the human body, then they would have designed it differently. They designed it to make continually identical swings to test equipment. That makes fewer components rather important. 1 arm is preferable to 2 when dealing with repetition. However, the human body has the triangle in place of the steel rod. You may believe that the "1 arm" is the left arm, but the center of the left arm is rotating around an axis, where as in iron byron, the center of the arm IS the axis. Again pointing out the difference between the human body and iron byron. Remember, Iron Byron was not designed to study the human body in the golf swing, but only equipment.
Click to expand...
 
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