This ENDS all the DRIVER hits up or down debate!

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Below are pics of the CURRENT World's Longest Driver Champion.

David Mobley.

Tom Bartlett knows him for the Hooter's Tour where both played for a score and went head to head in LD competition.

So...the guy can PLAY golf too....(Not like some of these gorillas).

This is it. You hit down on it. Period. The lines drawn on pic one are PRECISE and the LOW POINT LINE is as FAR B-A-C-K as it could humanly possibly be.

There is no debate.

But...here is what the GOOFY hit up on it crowd will say anyway
(I'll save them the time)....

"He MAY have the shaft leaning forward but he could still; be hitting up on it. You need a launch monitor to tell for sure."

Bull****!

No chance. Anyone with a brain and a compass could see he would break the shaft trying to drop kick it.

"It isn't OPTIMIUM. The launch monitors say..."

Bull****!

This guy BEAT all of those guys. Soon, they'll all figure out how to pick a DRIVER THAT FITS and they'll hit down TOO!

mobleycircle.jpg

mobley.jpg
 
D

dcg1952

New
Thank you , Brian----now I have a place to send my friends and show them the TRUTH about this. A picture IS worth a thousand words, isn't it?? Dr. Dave
 
R

revert

New
Cool diagram. Maybe i'm not understanding something though, i thought the low point was opposite the left shoulder?
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
it'll never end....i can hear it now:

Bah, that camera angle is distorting it, his stance is closed so it makes it look like the ball is back in his stance.

It just won't end
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Low Point IS opposite the left shoulder.....

UNLESS...

1. Your have throwaway (moves it back)
2. You have an arched left wrist or its equivilent (moves it forward)
 
V

Vaako

New
Is it possible this whole hit up w/ driver thingamagic is just some old baggage from balata ball era?

Balatas pick up spin like madmen - to get something even remotely close to optimum launch conditions one had to hit up. Hence the fetish of ascending impact.

With new balls one can pick the spin qualities of a golf ball - this leading to much more complex task of optimizing impact conditions, ball qualities and driver parameters.

And the reason David Mobley is the beating everybody is that he's willing to think out of the box; start using descending impact and pick the driver & ball to fit.*

[?]


Vaako
 
B

bsbsbs

New
I wouldn't call that middle. Camera angle make it look off the left chest in reality it is a little closer to left shoulder. (EITHER WAY HE'S STILL HITTING DOWN ON IT) However, El Gato, Eduardo Romero does play the driver in the middle of his stance and he kills the driver.
 
E

EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by Vaako

And the reason David Mobley is the beating everybody is that he's willing to think out of the box; start using descending impact and pick the driver & ball to fit.*

[?]


Vaako
Click to expand...

The reason is that he maintains his lag WAY longer than most - which gives him the leverage of his entire body, the 'mass' supporting impact.

That picture supports my view of the swings 'center' very well - notice the axis tilt and how well he has maintained lag relative to a line perpendicular to his shoulders. I'd love to see his both arms straight position, I'd bet it is very Trevino like - perfect angles at both arms straight would be my guess, with 'full radius'.

Got it? ;)
 
I

Iowagolfpr

New
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

it'll never end....i can hear it now:

Bah, that camera angle is distorting it, his stance is closed so it makes it look like the ball is back in his stance.

It just won't end
Click to expand...
In an earlier thread Brain mentioned that camera angles can distort what a picture shows. He noted that he and Mikestloc have done on lot of work in that regard. Brain mentioned that he was going to post some photos showing the effect of parallax. According to Brain a bad camera angle can produce an incorrect conclusion. Give me a bad camera angle and the ability to draw lines incorrectly and I can show that the world is flat! These long drivers are very dedicated. They work day in and day out on hitting the ball as well as they can. They try every ball position and every angle of attack. They have the resources of the the shaft and clubhead companies. They have the best equipement for their swings. Many of them have 10 or more drivers at any given event. Many use a different driver and shaft during the event depending on the wind conditions and the firmness of the ground. They know and understand equipement. They tee the ball well forward and hit up on the ball. I go to the long driving events and I practice on the range and play with the long drivers. Tom Wishon is a highly respected club maker and advisor to the PGA of America. He advocates a positive angle of the attack with the driver. Two time World Long Drive Champion Sean Fister told me in front of two AI's that he tees the ball high and hits up on the ball. I used to tee the ball down and have it further back in my stance. Three long drivers (two of them former World Champions) were nice enough to take me to the range. We hit balls together. They showed me what happens when you hit down compared to hitting slight up. I tried teeing the ball higher. My driving improved greatly. I drive the ball much better. Period. David Mobley doesn't hit down on drives. I have stood five feet from him when he was on the range. He doesn't play the ball back in his stance like the camera angle incorrectly shows on the pictures that Brain posted. I have visited with him about the golf swing. These long drivers are great guys and the are true professionals who love to win. Many of the are good golfers. David is one of the best golfers of the long drive tour members and he has played on mini tours. Many of the other long drivers are good golfers. They take what they do seriously and they study shafts, clubheads, launch angles, spin rates, ball positions and angle of attacks. If hitting down on the ball helped them they would do it. Heck they would stand on their heads to hit it 5 yards longer. Lynn Blake (G.S.E.D.) correctly stated that you can hit down on drives, level, or up on drives. Any of the three are ok by me. If you hit down with a driver, you can use a very similar motion with the driver and the irons. However, you will lose distance. Long drivers on the Long Drivers Tour do not hit down on with their drivers. :)
 
F

ForeRight

New
If you think that camera angle could make his hands look THAT much further then the ball, it would have to be a funhouse camera. I'm not a pro nor am I a seasoned TMGr, but I do know one thing, if he is hitting up in this pic, his left shoulder would be MUCH higher.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Iowa....i'm not disputing anything you said and if i in some way implied something to aggravate you i apologize.

I agree with you, you can hit up or you can hit down. Which one is harder to do more effectively? Well i'd say the one where you get 5 mulligans ;).
 
V

Vaako

New
quote:Originally posted by EdZ

quote:Originally posted by Vaako

And the reason David Mobley is the beating everybody is that he's willing to think out of the box; start using descending impact and pick the driver & ball to fit.*

[?]


Vaako
Click to expand...

The reason is that he maintains his lag WAY longer than most - which gives him the leverage of his entire body, the 'mass' supporting impact.

That picture supports my view of the swings 'center' very well - notice the axis tilt and how well he has maintained lag relative to a line perpendicular to his shoulders. I'd love to see his both arms straight position, I'd bet it is very Trevino like - perfect angles at both arms straight would be my guess, with 'full radius'.

Got it? ;)
Click to expand...

Not really.

If this is after all camera angles, then he's playing the same game everybody else is playing - only better. And my question is sorta moot to begin with.

What was your view of swing center again - the EdZ/TGManMachine/Horton notion that low point is under the (shoulders') rotational center at the base of the neck? And is this view similar to a Pelz'ian finesse swing consepts?

I'm having hard time following what is everybodys exact position on this topic.


Vaako
 
T

TGManMachine

New
Iowagolfpr.

Your observations are very interesting but they are still anecdotal when analyzing positive or negative angle of attack. Do you have any definitive launch monitor data to verify what you say? Perhaps you don't have access to such data, but I still have to ask.

If TGM states that driver head path must be descending for best results, I think the onus is on those who control TGM to respond to those who say that a positive angle of attack is optimal.

I can conceive that a slight negative attack angle may be acceptable though not optimal for distance. If one has a 2 degree negative attack angle it is possible that the driver head dynamic loft is decreased by 2 degrees because the driver head is being hooded. A decreased dynamic loft will lower ball trajectory while the downward descending force vector will create more ball backspin which increases ball trajectory. The net result may be a decent ball trajectory but distance is not maximized. Those that advocate a descending driver head path also claim greater control of their drives. This may be so for their swing mechanics.

I don't think I have said that a descending driver path is wrong, but I have suggested that it is not optimal for distance. Personally, I feel more confident hitting up on the ball, and I am able to square the driver head to the forward teed ball with my swing geometry. Again I think that TGM owners should reconsider Kelley's descending driver theory based on new technology data.
 
oztrainee

oztrainee

New
Question

Hitting down = incline plane + Centrifugal force
It look like hitting down, but in fact it is swing out?

True or false...Could I have an answer please?

Now going back to this topic..
To send a ball of at 20degree, a driver with 10 degree of loft on its face would have to be swung at about 13 degree above the horizontal as a hits the ball. THis is very nearly impossible; but it were a blow like this would give a strong player's ball the longest possible carry from the tee... (I just copy the above from the book)??????

Again we have to take the wetness of turf in to account too...But if we are just talking about carry of the short, the higher should be better...



But according to "Search of the perfect swing" scientific approach... The perfect launch angle would be about 13 degree... PAGE - 163 - 166... "search of the perfect swing"

I would prefer to use a higher loft angle club and just hit down on it, I think it should be easier to achieve rather the hitting up and compress. The more we can forward lean, the more the ball will go higher. Again hitting the shot with a higher loft driver will trigger our brain to compress the ball rather then scooping the shot.

Hitting up and compress is good, we can visualise it too, but can we achieve it?
 
T

TGManMachine

New
Good questions oztrainee.

For proper geometric analysis, I would think that you would have to view the golf swing from an elevated angle so that you have a perpendicular view as you are observing the true inclined plane of the swing. It seems that we are being presented with vertical face-on views as well as skewed viewing angles.

I believe that ball initial launch angles are governed by driver loft and line of compression to a greater extent than initial ball spin rate, which takes effect later in the ball's trajectory. Launch monitor results has clearly demonstrated that an ascending attack angle will produce optimal distance.

Do you know your exact attack angle or are you assuming that you have a descending attack angle?
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Here's your SKEWED angle....

a PERFECT dead on straight view of Craig Magruder Jr., a very long hitting young pro.

OK...everyone....these are 2 pics of four fields of the SAME video...see the ball behind the box? then see the club ON the box....Hitting UP or Down???

littlecraigbox.jpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top