Tom Bartlett
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
brianmanzella response:
"He was just a kid then.
True story:
The Itallian Stallion and Lynn Blake were in the Golftek booth at the PGA SHOW this past January.
Lynn was really ripping it about 240 carry on the Golftek.
The Stallion was smokin' it about 255 carry.
Tom Bartlett, who was with us, was walking around the SHOW with a CAST on his right foot.
I said: "Tom, hit one for Lynn."
Broken Foot and all, no practice swings 298, 303.
....C-A-R-R-R-Y!!!
"He was just a kid then.
True story:
The Itallian Stallion and Lynn Blake were in the Golftek booth at the PGA SHOW this past January.
Lynn was really ripping it about 240 carry on the Golftek.
The Stallion was smokin' it about 255 carry.
Tom Bartlett, who was with us, was walking around the SHOW with a CAST on his right foot.
I said: "Tom, hit one for Lynn."
Broken Foot and all, no practice swings 298, 303.
....C-A-R-R-R-Y!!!
mgjordan
New
Brian,
There is no doubt that you, Lynn, and Tom all have sound mechanics. What is it that enables one player to carry a golf ball over 300 yards and others 240? I know it comes down to clubhead speed, but what makes that speed? Is it a matter of a swinger learning to pivot faster and a hitter learning to thrust harder or is there something else behind it? I have always been in awe of the players who can turn a legitimate course into a "pitch-and-putt". And I can tell you that it's no fun competing against people who basically turn a par 72 into a par 66-68 before the round begins.
There is no doubt that you, Lynn, and Tom all have sound mechanics. What is it that enables one player to carry a golf ball over 300 yards and others 240? I know it comes down to clubhead speed, but what makes that speed? Is it a matter of a swinger learning to pivot faster and a hitter learning to thrust harder or is there something else behind it? I have always been in awe of the players who can turn a legitimate course into a "pitch-and-putt". And I can tell you that it's no fun competing against people who basically turn a par 72 into a par 66-68 before the round begins.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Whether your body is more biased towards fast twitched or slow twitched muscles will be a HUGE factor.
That is just genes
That is just genes
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I'll admit i'm not the first person to start debating on physiology but i do know for a fact that what your body is more prone to fast/slow twitch muscles will play a very large part.
Here's a for instance:
I am more slow twitched oriented versus fast. Many personal trainers have confirmed this and this is just how i've been born. Usually people who are more slow twitched have much bigger lower bodies, why i don't remember. This is true for me. I could almost out leg press/squat anyone on the football team in high school when i was a piddly 140lbs but i could NEVER get anywhere near that in a bench press, my own weight anyway. I'm still not very strong in my upper body. I can swing in the 110-112 range TOPS. I'm going to try and increase that but we'll see.
My other friend is much more upper body oriented and fast twitch oriented. Very strong upper body and if he was a boxer i would say he could be one of the best pound per pound ever. He only ways about 135lbs soaking wet and can bench almost twice his weight for a max, however try and get him to squat his own weight and he'll have issues LOL. He was also an all state swimmer and just simply strong/flexible in his upper body.
Never had his swing speed measured but if had to guess it is in the 120+ range. No launch monitor tweaking at all and there have been many times when we play when he'll hit the 320-325 yard bomb with 305-310 being the normal hit. This is from his old trusty 975D. He also uses his 15* 3 wood to drive (consistently) a 280 yard par 4 local to us.
Phyisology is important and i know that many olympic teams use specific exercises to engage and develop the fast twitch muscles for certain events. One I know of for sure is the bombsledding and luge events.
Here's a for instance:
I am more slow twitched oriented versus fast. Many personal trainers have confirmed this and this is just how i've been born. Usually people who are more slow twitched have much bigger lower bodies, why i don't remember. This is true for me. I could almost out leg press/squat anyone on the football team in high school when i was a piddly 140lbs but i could NEVER get anywhere near that in a bench press, my own weight anyway. I'm still not very strong in my upper body. I can swing in the 110-112 range TOPS. I'm going to try and increase that but we'll see.
My other friend is much more upper body oriented and fast twitch oriented. Very strong upper body and if he was a boxer i would say he could be one of the best pound per pound ever. He only ways about 135lbs soaking wet and can bench almost twice his weight for a max, however try and get him to squat his own weight and he'll have issues LOL. He was also an all state swimmer and just simply strong/flexible in his upper body.
Never had his swing speed measured but if had to guess it is in the 120+ range. No launch monitor tweaking at all and there have been many times when we play when he'll hit the 320-325 yard bomb with 305-310 being the normal hit. This is from his old trusty 975D. He also uses his 15* 3 wood to drive (consistently) a 280 yard par 4 local to us.
Phyisology is important and i know that many olympic teams use specific exercises to engage and develop the fast twitch muscles for certain events. One I know of for sure is the bombsledding and luge events.
birdie_man
New
It's just how athletic you are...some people can reach swing speeds that others could not with the same technique. You simply cannot say that athleticism isn't important in golf. Look at Tiger's swing and tell me with a straight face that he is not a great athlete.
Flexibility also plays a big part, as does timing. I guess timing can be improved...but again I'd think some people can do it better than others.
I think leg strength is a big thing...when I was biking lots I could hit the ball so much better than I can now...my swing felt much more powerful and stable (not floppy) and effortless.
Flexibility also plays a big part, as does timing. I guess timing can be improved...but again I'd think some people can do it better than others.
I think leg strength is a big thing...when I was biking lots I could hit the ball so much better than I can now...my swing felt much more powerful and stable (not floppy) and effortless.
mgjordan
New
Sure, being athletic helps, but there are plenty of fat, out of shape guys who can kill the ball. There are also small, scrawney kids who can kill the ball. I am not particularly in shape, but I'm not in bad shape either. I have been athletic all of my life...mostly baseball when I was younger and then golf. None of this answers my question though. What makes two people, both will solid mechanics, hit the ball different distances. Why does Brian carry it 250, Lynn about the same, and then Tom Bartlett or MikeSTLOC carry it 280+ yards? What makes Sam Snead hit the ball long well into his later years and Lynn and Nicklaus to lose lots of distance? What makes one person hit 4 iron 180 yards and another hit 4 iron 230 yards? You can't just put a blanket over them and say "muscle fibers" and "athletic ability".
birdie_man
New
Why? What do you mean? (Daly vs. Tiger...)
I don't see the the same flat-out athleticism and power...but Daly is definately gifted (even though he has a belly). You cannot deny that at all. Daly is a damn good athlete...maybe not in the same sense that Tiger is...i.e. Tiger is the classic athlete who you could see running around and playing basketball or any other sport. That is not Daly...but damn right he's athletic, just in a different way. It takes tons of strength and balance to swing the way he does.
I know you could say there are tons of athletes who can't golf worth crap. I think the turn plays a big part...some people just can't seem to do it...whether they are good athletes or not.
I couldn't turn at all until I practiced so much it became normal. I have some scoliosis (curve) in my back too...after going to the chiropractor my turn has defiantely improved.
I've been thinking that the structure of your spine can play a role in your turn (think about it...there's no way you can turn around a curved spine as well as you could a straight spine...you never see anything spinning on curved centres...axles, etc.).
Has anyone heard anything about this? I never have...but the idea makes sense to me.
I don't see the the same flat-out athleticism and power...but Daly is definately gifted (even though he has a belly). You cannot deny that at all. Daly is a damn good athlete...maybe not in the same sense that Tiger is...i.e. Tiger is the classic athlete who you could see running around and playing basketball or any other sport. That is not Daly...but damn right he's athletic, just in a different way. It takes tons of strength and balance to swing the way he does.
I know you could say there are tons of athletes who can't golf worth crap. I think the turn plays a big part...some people just can't seem to do it...whether they are good athletes or not.
I couldn't turn at all until I practiced so much it became normal. I have some scoliosis (curve) in my back too...after going to the chiropractor my turn has defiantely improved.
I've been thinking that the structure of your spine can play a role in your turn (think about it...there's no way you can turn around a curved spine as well as you could a straight spine...you never see anything spinning on curved centres...axles, etc.).
Has anyone heard anything about this? I never have...but the idea makes sense to me.
Here you are making the commont mistake - you equate performance w/ the amount of fat.
The fatty tissue in your body is just a repository of energy. Underneath a terrible fatso (golfer) can be a ferrari frame.
The cost of being fat is, that you have to haul it around w/ you. This is a minor issue in golf, but a major one in for example marathon running.
Vaako
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I never said either of the above:
Notice i said usually, this comes from discussions with many personal trainers who are competitive body builders. In their experience this is what they find. Not always, but usually.
quotehyisology is important and i know that many olympic teams use specific exercises to engage and develop the fast twitch muscles for certain events. One I know of for sure is the bombsledding and luge events.
Again, never said anything about "having" or "competitive." I was simply stating that it HELPS to maximize swing speed.
One thing that i didn't mention here is that strength does play a part for certain golfers in helping maximize swing speed. But you have to train accordingly.
birdie_man
New
But Daly is chunky...so is Tim Herron...so is Stadler (he won last year on the PGA Tour!). Craig perry.
That is them in their natural state...I wonder how much those guys would improve if they lost some pounds and hit the gym to increase their strength.
Oh I definately agree that it doesn't help...fat guys are lucky there is golf and bowling mostly.
Those guys can hit the ball though. I think you have to have athleticism to do that...like I said though it is in a different way...they don't have to run, jump, swim, or dive in golf. I know what you mean...it's kinda hard to call some of them athletic. We just wanna call them good golfers. Most people think athletes are basketball, football, hockey players etc.
I bet if you took a lot of guys from the PGA tour and put em on a basketball court or something they could surprise you.
That is them in their natural state...I wonder how much those guys would improve if they lost some pounds and hit the gym to increase their strength.
Oh I definately agree that it doesn't help...fat guys are lucky there is golf and bowling mostly.
Those guys can hit the ball though. I think you have to have athleticism to do that...like I said though it is in a different way...they don't have to run, jump, swim, or dive in golf. I know what you mean...it's kinda hard to call some of them athletic. We just wanna call them good golfers. Most people think athletes are basketball, football, hockey players etc.
I bet if you took a lot of guys from the PGA tour and put em on a basketball court or something they could surprise you.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
LoL....i missed this part of the debate.
I'm just going to state this and i'll let you respond:
Just because you might be "overweight" or "heavy" doesn't mean you aren't athletic. If you believe that it does, you are sorely mistaken.
I'm just going to state this and i'll let you respond:
Just because you might be "overweight" or "heavy" doesn't mean you aren't athletic. If you believe that it does, you are sorely mistaken.
birdie_man
New
I agree with this. Definately. There are heavyweight boxers who are great fighters and by looking at them you would think they could hardly get their ass off the couch.
These guys train like crazy though and some of them can only get off so much weight without compromising performance and being underweight (for their natural body weight/type).
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I'd like to add to all that I have said and point out it is not one defining thing that creates speed in the golf swing.
It is many things.
Athleticism, speed, strength, flexibility, balance, timing, height (and length of arms), mechanics.
The more you have the better off you are obviously.
Tom Barlett obviously has all these things...even though he has a gut. [8D]
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