Too big of a shoulder turn leads to hooks why?
- Thread starter jenhaoyen
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Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Im sorry but this whole thing is pretty silly. Nobody ever said the anything but the clubhead swings left or zeroes out. Maybe I'm just not sure the whole point he's trying to make.
Not quite true Kevin. "Swinging left" is definately not the same as zeroing out by having a clubhead that goes down and not out into impact. Tell anyone to actually swing left (with their arms) in the downswing and they will probably hit it with the toe. Secondly, the feeling of swinging RIGHT is most probably the predominant feeling of the better player INTO impact. The fact that it goes left at some point is clear to everyone who has taken time to understand the D-plane. But the concsious effort to swing left is definitely, for the vast majority, counter productive.
The point I'm making is that all this talk about "swinging left" is inaccurate and misleading: any concept at all which is poorly defined and described is misleading.
johnnymarlboro
New
I think most here understand it just fine. Just because you can't make it work doesn't make it any less valid. I think Jim described it best earlier in the thread. If you hit a draw, and you want to hit it straight, you've got to swing left more. What's so hard about that?
johnny, let me tell you a golf story: a while back there were some folks who couldn't make that essential flat left wrist work. Kept chunking it and hitting these inexplicable shanks from time to time. I suppose they just couldn't make it work, right? Needed to practice hitting down more, right? Keep it on plane, right? Keep it flatter, right? And they ALL understood perfectly well WHY it had to stay flat. The along came this guy from NO and said all those crazy shots might be BECAUSE of the flat left wrist. And many didn't want to believe. They understood the book, and they said the man from NO was crazy and had no idea what he was talking about. Because they UNDERSTOOD, and he didn't...
Oh, really?
Oh, really?
Wulsy, I think we all appreciate that you are trying to "challenge the concept", but your argument leaves a lot to be desired. Please refrain from using "probably" when describing references, conditions, or points that you wish to support your position. Additionally, without concrete opinion data, such as a blind survey, you cannot claim to know what "most" good ball strikers are thinking or feeling. Just because you hit it with one feel doesn't mean so does everyone else. I personally hit it best when I feel I swing left... but that's subjective. I hit it best when the body action I make causes the clubhead to result in good alignments and paths at impact. The feeling I associate with swinging left, that produces those dynamics, helps me achieve it. That feeling is different for everyone. Please present your argument in terms of the club dynamics, and not in terms of subjective feelings. I'm not trying to be rude or inconsiderate, but this entire thread has been an argument in futility because we are arguing over feels... and that's an argument no-one can win.
I don't think so. How about the aoa. What did Moe Norman do? I should clarify I'm talking Driver.
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It's not an argument as such, just a different viewpoint on one of the most common ideas amongst the general monotone of the forum sychophants. BTW, your post is pretty much a waste of time in terms of furthering our understanding of how to create ideal impact alignments, because you present NOTHING other than your subjective feeling to support the idea of swinging left. I have presented a lot more.
Are you serious? Of course I HAVE to use probably because I can't claim it to factual for the reasons you stated:
Dynamics? I think you may have meant geometry. Have a look at a few D-plane videos and we can all agree on ideal impact geometry. This is factual and indisputable. Is anybody really interested in regurgitating D-plane facts ad nausium. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT ABOUT CLUBHEAD GEOMETRY THROUGH IMPACT!!!!
The open question is how to produce optimal geometry, and that is both factual AND inseperably connected to feelings when it needs to be produced by a human being. You state AS A FACT that feelings are individual and subjective. Any data to back this up? I personally doubt very much that feelings are indivdual and subjective. Try telling 100 people to swing the club back and ask them if anyone had the feeling that club went forward! It would be a fair assumption that everyone would have had a similar feeling. Why should this be different for swinging right or left then? OK you feel that you hit it better when you feel that you "swing left". What you mean by that is not clear and how you hit it is not clear. Do you hit it any good? Do you have a plus handicap or do you play on tour? If not you're probably not hitting it very well with your feeling of swinging left.
I don't preceive your post as rude or inconsiderate.
It is indeed futile to argue, especially with people who don't really understand the process of discussion. Some forum members may have limited subject knowledge and some may be somewhat blinded by hero worship. But it doesn't mean they shouldn't take part in the discussions. Everyone can contribute something.
We need to avoid having the same scenario as 5 years ago with, for example, the once sacred FLW. Maybe if there had been a discussion on this 5 years ago Brian would have been elected to the Top100 3 years ago! Oh, and there were/are thousands of golfers who claim/claimed to hit it better with a FLW.
It's not about winning an argument, it's about discussing and understanding more as a result of the discussion. Ask Brian's scientists, I bet they agree.
None. Cause they all are. But there are under planers and stuck guys who absolutely have to think swing left. Watch sone of the practice swings. I'll bet Kuchar thinks that? But I agree it can't be a cardinal rule or we'd all hit pull slices.
birly-shirly
New
Ah Wulsy - it's a rare post from you these days that doesn't call to mind your wife's constant expectation of your becoming embroiled in fisticuffs.
And this has been no exception. Nice rant - don't spoil it with the olive branch stuff.
And this has been no exception. Nice rant - don't spoil it with the olive branch stuff.
bimyow
New
Still new here so don't beat me up too bad. 
Seems to me like the hands will move left or in before the clubhead is done moving out. Now with a few players it's hard to see, and with Rickie, well he obviously swings very much "out" but I think he needs to. This ties in to the CP and "new release" stuff but just swinging my mini club here by my computer it seems completely true unless you're pulling with your lead arm and not throwing at all with your right which is what underplaners tend to do... pull targetward from the top.
Just my observations.
Seems to me like the hands will move left or in before the clubhead is done moving out. Now with a few players it's hard to see, and with Rickie, well he obviously swings very much "out" but I think he needs to. This ties in to the CP and "new release" stuff but just swinging my mini club here by my computer it seems completely true unless you're pulling with your lead arm and not throwing at all with your right which is what underplaners tend to do... pull targetward from the top.
Just my observations.
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