Too Much Coaching

Status
Not open for further replies.
E

eric54

New
I was watching The Scottish Open today and noticed how some players do not look natural when stood over a golf ball. Adam Scott is a prime example and his poster looks so forced.

It just seems to me that some players are too reliant on technique rather natural ability. Is that down to too much coaching? Be interesting to see what guys think and especially Brian.
 
Last edited:
vjcapron

vjcapron

New
eric54 said:
I was watching The Scottish Open today and noticed how some players do not look natural when stood over a golf ball. Adam Scott is a prime example and his poster looks so forced.

It just seems to me that some players are oo reliant on technique rather natural ability. Is that down to too much coaching? Be interesting to see what guys think and especially Brian.
Click to expand...

YOu make a good point. Look at pictures of Bobby Jones, Arnie, Jack, Byron, Hogan, and Slammin Sammy. 99% of the teachers would change the way they setup.

Their spines aren't straight. Their chins are not "up". If anything, their chins are down.

They knew something that modern teachers do not - they knew what works.

It kind of reminds me of how baseball pitchers used to be able to throw 300 or more innings in a season, every season. This was when the pitchers used the pump windup and the entire throwing motion was relaxed and fluid. Now, with the "improvement" in mechanics, 200 innings once or twice in a career is quite an accomplishment.
 
J

JRJ

New
Yeah, after watching Goydos and Rocco play at such a high level earlier this year I couldn't help but think "this will put a lot of swing guru's out of work." The game is really all about putting and Adam Scott, Michele Wie, Sergio Garcia, thousands of club professionals behind a cash register....the list goes on and on of average putters.
 
S

spktho

New
vjcapron said:
It kind of reminds me of how baseball pitchers used to be able to throw 300 or more innings in a season, every season. This was when the pitchers used the pump windup and the entire throwing motion was relaxed and fluid. Now, with the "improvement" in mechanics, 200 innings once or twice in a career is quite an accomplishment.
Click to expand...

Would have to disagree a little with this analogy. Pitchers are throwing harder for less innings because there are relief pitchers that are used more often now. Why would you leave a starter in that is obviously tired and can't hit his spots when you have a relief pitcher who is more fresh?

The professional golfers still have tremendous athletic ability for hitting a golf ball to make whatever their teacher tells them to do work. They may be able to do better, but are usually looking for that "edge" that a particular teacher may be selling.
 
Last edited:
T

thefuture37

Banned
the original post was about adam scott. his not winning more often isn't because he doesn't hit it well, its because he doesn't putt well when he needs to. it has nothing to do with his posture at address or how much his swing is coached.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
thefuture37 said:
the original post was about adam scott. his not winning more often isn't because he doesn't hit it well, its because he doesn't putt well when he needs to. it has nothing to do with his posture at address or how much his swing is coached.
Click to expand...

How do you know this?
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
spktho said:
Would have to disagree a little with this analogy. Pitchers are throwing harder for less innings because there are relief pitchers that are used more often now. Why would you leave a starter in that is obviously tired and can't hit his spots when you have a relief pitcher who is more fresh?

The professional golfers still have tremendous athletic ability for hitting a golf ball to make whatever their teacher tells them to do work. They may be able to do better, but are usually looking for that "edge" that a particular teacher may be selling.
Click to expand...

Pitchers get injured waaaaay more now than then. Every sport has a sect of people that are over coaching mechanics that are either poor or not right for the individual. Either way, great athleticism will always trump lesser athleticism. Look at this kid Lincecum for the Giants. If he was a golfer and went to Haney he would change him and probably destroy him.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Too Much Coaching?

Can you "over coach" someone in golf?

Does the Pope's bear potty in the rectory?

I was the #1 over-coacher in America about 20 years ago. When Craig Perks started looking more like R2D2 than Sam Snead, I knew I was overdoing it.

It took a long time to know how to "not spoil the soup," so to speak.

When Jimmy Ballard and Hank Haney told me in 1996 they would have changed Jim Furyk's swing before he got on Tour, I realized that there were two less teachers in front of me. I already knew better.

But, I continued to try to "shove in" way too many concepts that were not ideal for "A" particular player. Even though I went "custom" with David Toms in 1997, I still made too many mistakes with developing players, even a few years later.

The final straw, or more accurately straws, were Howard Logan and Brett Gahm. They were both my students, they both were taught to "Single Shift" (A shift up on the backswing, and a single plane on the downswing on the "Turned Shoulder Plane"), and they were both successful with that variation and the rest if my full swing instruction. Then Howard wanted to learn a double-shift (a shift from the elbow plane on the backswing to the turned shoulder plane, and then a down shift back to the elbow plane on the downswing), and I thought Brett would benefit from the same thing.

Wrong.

Of course, you long-time Manzella Forum-ites know I am totally custom these days, and try HARD not to "over-teach." Lindsey Gahm and Adam Mallory are totally not over coached, nor are any of the multitude of Forum members from all over the world who come to see me. Everyone has individual needs and not everyone can handle a lot of info.

The modern Tour Player is over coached in my opinion. I see COOKIE CUTTER teaching on tour for the most part. So, non-custom, over teaching is the norm on Tour, as it was for me back in the day.

Will customized, just-right teaching ever become popular on tour?

We'll see.
 
dashfan87

dashfan87

New
Briman coached Perks????

oh... its case "in" point.....?.... oops.... its one of those things i always heard, never saw written down... meh, you all should be used to my grammatical errors by now.
 
P

puttmad

New
...

thefuture37 said:
Because I have seen him play? Do you watch the PGA or European Tours? If you need something more concrete than look at the stats.

Adam Scott on the PGA Tour: T24 GIR; T151 Putts per round

Case IN Point!
Click to expand...

Those stats don't tell the whole story...apparently Adam is one of the best at putts of 15 feet and over....:confused:
 
T

thefuture37

Banned
puttmad said:
Those stats don't tell the whole story...apparently Adam is one of the best at putts of 15 feet and over....:confused:
Click to expand...

If you are going to make that claim and refute my concrete evidence(the stats), you need something concrete. Otherwise it is pointless and nothing to be confused about.
 
P

puttmad

New
...

thefuture37 said:
If you are going to make that claim and refute my concrete evidence(the stats), you need something concrete. Otherwise it is pointless and nothing to be confused about.
Click to expand...

I wasn't refuting anything future...I was adding to your comment, i.e. look how many putts UNDER 15 feet he must have missed....:D

As for concrete eveidence, ask Nick Faldo..he is the one that said it, with the other commentators on my golf channel.......
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top