Too Much Coaching

[Tball88]

Interesting, I think video has it's pro's and con's. Before Video people were way more worried about scoring than having a "technically sound swing".

I think a lot of people are now more concerned with looking good as opposed to scoring. People played with a lot of peculiar swings, but learned to score with them, as opposed to always changing their swing.

Driving ranges also may have helped turn the focus to swing technique, some of my best practice lately has come on the course by just throwing three or four balls around the green and working on getting up and down.

My swing is now sound enough thanks to Brian and others that I'll be around the green in regulation if not on it, now I just need to make sure I get down in two when I miss

 

[thefuture37]

Interesting, I think video has it's pro's and con's. Before Video people were way more worried about scoring than having a "technically sound swing".

Hogan and Moe Norman were still worried about technique before video.

 

[birdie_man]

Yes! It was more results-oriented though, no doubt.

 

[Tball88]

I agree Hogan and Norman were worried about technique, but they figured it out by ball flight, not by necessarily by video. Hogan leared to hit a fade and played it to death. Today there are pro's that would tell him that doesn't work and he nees to learn to straighten out that fade...

 

[thefuture37]

I agree Hogan and Norman were worried about technique, but they figured it out by ball flight, not by necessarily by video. Hogan leared to hit a fade and played it to death. Today there are pro's that would tell him that doesn't work and he nees to learn to straighten out that fade...

have you seen the shell's match hogan vs snead? hogan hits more draws than fades in that. also jody vasquez's first person accounts with hogan say that he worked on hitting draws all the time, as well as fades and straight balls.

 

[Brian Manzella]

No Offense.

What does Hogan's shot selection have to do with "too much coaching"?

Other than the fact that for whatever reason, almost no one "shotmakes" anymore.

Hogan would NOT like today's current crop of "instruction." Of course that is just my opinion, but I think I am right.

Over-coached and under-taught—Today's PGA Tour player.

 

[rogerdodger]

Imagine Lee Trevino's parents taking him to a top 100 instructor with video analysis, or Miller Barber, Hubert Green, Lanny Wadkins... or other top players with indivual golf swings. Claude Harmon apparently watched Lanny Wadkins hit a driver off the deck from a downhill lie and put it on a green from 250 yards during a playing lesson with his son Dick. His reply was along the lines of, "what are you going to teach him, other than take the shortest route to the bank".

 

[suns11111]

Not to argue, Adam Scott is what #3 in the world, he makes putts and shots all the time. Can't base this on a couple shots seen on TV or what announcers say.

Brian said it right, "Mechanics produce, Feel reproduces".

Posted at my desk at work, it seems to work cause I am not playing as much golf (married and a 2yr old future golfer!), yet still posting good scores.

 

[Tball88]

Future 37, I've always heard Hogan played a fade, but hell maybe he did draw. I wasn't there...

Anyway, my point is that I think a lot of coaches teach a style or system and don't necessarily work with a players natural god-given ability.


I've seen pro's look at one or two shots and start changing a guys grip, setup, etc. and I can't believe they "really" knew what needed to be fixed.

Unfortunately it's not economically viable, but I think playing lessons would probably help a lot more than most lessons. They could get coached on how to manage the game and the pro would really get an idea of why this player can't get it in the hole in fewer strokes. They just take too long and most people don't want to pay what it would cost.


Maybe this all goes back to my favorite quote by Brian "The ball doesn't know".

 

[thefuture37]

No Offense

What does Hogan's shot selection have to do with "too much coaching"?

Other than the fact that for whatever reason, almost no one "shotmakes" anymore.

Hogan would NOT like today's current crop of "instruction." Of course that is just my opinion, but I think I am right.

Over-coached and under-taught—Today's PGA Tour player.

Tball88 made the comment that a coach today would try to straighten out Hogan's fade. I replied by saying that he didn't just hit a fade(if the Shell's match is indicative of his normal style of play), so his argument didn't make sense. There would be no reason for a current coach to "straighten out" a shot that a player could hit on command.

 

[thefuture37]

Future 37, I've always heard Hogan played a fade, but hell maybe he did draw. I wasn't there...

Get the dvd Hogan vs Snead Shell's Wonderful World of Golf. TGW.com or amazon for $20. You will see Hogan hit draws off the tee and from the fairway. Its the best 20 dollars you will ever spend on golf multimedia.

 

[jeffgladchun]

Get the dvd Hogan vs Snead Shell's Wonderful World of Golf. TGW.com or amazon for $20. You will see Hogan hit draws off the tee and from the fairway. Its the best 20 dollars you will ever spend on golf multimedia.

Except maybe Soft Fade/Draw

 

[tongzilla]

guys, remember the average Tour player is significantly more accomplished than 50 years ago. The field is 'deeper' so to speak.

 

[Tball88]

Actually I have the DVD. I can't remember if Hogan was drawing or fading, but I do remember he hit every fairway and I believe he hit every green as well. I'll take a look at it again.

Tongzilla, I agree that fields are deeper, I guess. Although one guy really wins pretty much everything, luckily for everyone else he's hurt. Statistically speaking are scores on the tour going down? Is the average handicap going down?

I don't have the official stats, so I'm really unsure, but I keep hearing the average handicap hasn't changed hardly at all, despite more coaching, more access to information, better technology, video, etc.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Because I have seen him play? Do you watch the PGA or European Tours? If you need something more concrete than look at the stats.

Adam Scott on the PGA Tour: T24 GIR; T151 Putts per round

Case IN Point!

Those are pointless stats. Putts per round are way more indicative of proximity to the hole than actual putting. Don't try to claim you know Adam Scott's game by saying you watch TV and spew out stats.

 

[thefuture37]

Those are pointless stats. Putts per round are way more indicative of proximity to the hole than actual putting. Don't try to claim you know Adam Scott's game by saying you watch TV and spew out stats.

Your post is pointless. It is possible to watch a pro play and have a general idea of why they don't win more often(he is number 3 in the world right?), even if you can't do it yourself. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they do shed some light on the situation. The discrepancy in those two stats show that he is a better ballstriker than putter, period. Don't claim that you know he is overcoached just because he has good posture and a famous coach.

 

[dashfan87]

Your post is pointless. It is possible to watch a pro play and have a general idea of why they don't win more often(he is number 3 in the world right?), even if you can't do it yourself. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they do shed some light on the situation. The discrepancy in those two stats show that he is a better ballstriker than putter, period. Don't claim that you know he is overcoached just because he has good posture and a famous coach.

This post it pointless!!! There all pointless!!!!! AHHHHHH!!!! Adam Scott!!!!!!

Who cares........








seriously...

you guys are being silly gooses again.

 

[pecky987]

there are lies, there are damn lies, and then there are statistics

 

[Kevin Shields]

Your post is pointless. It is possible to watch a pro play and have a general idea of why they don't win more often(he is number 3 in the world right?), even if you can't do it yourself. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they do shed some light on the situation. The discrepancy in those two stats show that he is a better ballstriker than putter, period. Don't claim that you know he is overcoached just because he has good posture and a famous coach.

When did i say he was over coached? Show me where i said that?