Top 40 teachers under 40

[Brian Manzella]

Golf Teaching vs. Rates Charged

Paul Runyan charged $50 til the day he died in so cal.

Good for Mr. Runyan.

In 1984, I charged $20 and hour for adults, and $15 an hour for kids.

I just cant seem to justify raising my rates until I have the time to produce the kind of learning environment that would justify those prices. An indoor bay with Trackman and TVs, a take home DVD or instant upload to youtube, etc. Until then, I will stay the same and just work harder. I like the product I put forth, but cant justify going to top dollar right now.....especially for kids.

Kevin, it is all supply and demand.

You are the most improved teacher in the world in the last three years. No contest.

IIf you are busy all the time, raise your rates. If you aren't busy, lower your rates or get better at teaching.

Truer words were never spoken.

I'm just curious to where he gets the $260 number from. Why not just make it $250?

I'm not trying to play the moral police here, but I don't like the idea of charging that much if he can get it. I like more of the idea of charging a price that a good majority of people who are willing to take lessons can afford.

Breed could be the most brilliant instructor in the world, but at $500/hr, the reality is that only the rich can afford those lessons.

Somebody like myself, a middle class, single professional. I could afford the lesson. But when working with somebody new, I typically need to come back about once every 3-4 weeks for about the first 4 months or so...then after that probably about once every other month and then it slowly tapers off.

I couldn't afford that much at $500/hr and don't know many that could.

I learned a lot from the game from people that took from me what I could afford and a lot of times, just helping me out with questions I may have, for free. I think all of us have had these people in our lives, including Michael Breed. So to have a price tag on your lessons that only the wealthy could afford, even if you get the business, isn't giving back.

I'm all for guys making money and lots of it. I know of guys that charge up to $200/hr for lesson, but I think a few things happen:

1) that's more affordable for the general, serious lesson taking public
2) they usually cut a deal with somebody who is serious but can't quite afford it.
3) they go above and beyond to help their students even after the lesson, for free.

My guess is that it doesn't happen with somebody like Breed and I don't know how much somebody could go above and beyond and still justify a $500/hr lesson.

It is my guess Richie, that you have never witnessed a truly magical lesson from a superior teacher.

If you did, you would NEVER EVER say what you say about price.

I am not saying that any of the guys you mentioned are superior or can be magical, but folks are paying for the HOPE that they are.

And some folks are.

I doubt Breed, Butch Harmon, Lead, Haney, Kostis are worried about making a living from teaching anymore. They are charging that much because they are not worried about someone saying its too expensive.

I agree.

I don't think people are too worried that golf instruction might not work, who could help Charles B. ...lol The Haney Project hazardous to other instructors, maybe a slight overstatement, more like hazardous to his own clients, just think of all the work Haney's creating for others to fix, you should thank him.

I do everyday.

But he is FAR from the only one.

 

[greenfree]

Oh yeah! for sure , I bet you can't wait for thanksgiving day, their giving you lot's to be thankful for...lol.

 

[gmbtempe]

I am all for a teacher getting any rate he can, absolute pure capitalism if you ask me. If they have crafted an image that generates 10k a day and their teaching does not live up to that, oh well, they still did something right to get there and the person paying the money should do their own research. My only gripe would be charging lessons for juniors but that is a separate thread.

 

[duckslice]

supply and demand is doing disservice to the would be lesson taker

Good for Mr. Runyan.

In 1984, I charged $20 and hour for adults, and $15 an hour for kids.



Kevin, it is all supply and demand.

You are the most improved teacher in the world in the last three years. No contest.



Truer words were never spoken.



It is my guess Richie, that you have never witnessed a truly magical lesson from a superior teacher.

If you did, you would NEVER EVER say what you say about price.

I am not saying that any of the guys you mentioned are superior or can be magical, but folks are paying for the HOPE that they are.

And some folks are.



I agree.



I do everyday.

But he is FAR from the only one.

Supply and demand may be the economic model that most people believe in. But, as it relates to the golf instruction industry, it is woefully inefficient. Isn’t the evidence obvious? There are terrible instructors in this country charging, and receiving, much more than they are worth. Just as there is a comparable category of golf instructors who’ve spent lifetimes humbling grinding it out on the lesson tee, getting great results day in and day out, while charging a fraction of their over-hyped colleagues.

 

[siksta]

Supply and demand may be the economic model that most people believe in. But, as it relates to the golf instruction industry, it is woefully inefficient. Isn’t the evidence obvious? There are terrible instructors in this country charging, and receiving, much more than they are worth. Just as there is a comparable category of golf instructors who’ve spent lifetimes humbling grinding it out on the lesson tee, getting great results day in and day out, while charging a fraction of their over-hyped colleagues

Duckslice- Great comment i have no problem anyone charging whatever price this is America and if they get it no problem when i was in california i charged $150.00 was no problem for me to get and thats 10yrs ago. But i repeat no and i mean no one is worth $250hr dont care who u are and i've sat in lessons and learned with all the top instructors so i can be a great instructor. No one repeat no one is worth that much and u can have all those scientists at the Manzella summit prove that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[softconsult]

On the contrary, supply and demand works perfectly unless government, licensing or unions get in the way.

Consumer makes the choice between available instructors based on cost benefit analysis or some sort.
Not satisfied? Go somewhere else.

If I were an instructor that could make twice the local market rate and perhaps work less hours, that's
where I'm putting my price point. There is a pricing strategy can't remember the name, but it's basically the idea
of putting a premium price on a product in order to satisfy a certain segment of buyers who just feel better
knowing they paid a nice high price for the good or service. Creates a certain exclusivity image.

Also remember, that a golf instructor has overhead and costs of doing business.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Im starting to regret that I started this thread. I DO NOT, I repeat, do not have any problem with any teacher charging whatever he can get. It was just a knee jerk reaction to a 25 yr old kid getting $260 hr. I only charge what I do not because its all I can get, its just that its all I personally think im worth. I dont like pricing some good people out, especially juniors. I just cant ever imagine paying that much for a golf lesson.

 

[birly-shirly]

On the contrary, supply and demand works perfectly unless government, licensing or unions get in the way.

Like many modern laissez-faire thinkers, you need to re-read your Adam Smith. Then you would remember that the list of obstacles to a perfectly operating market is incomplete. And you would add professional associations...

 

[birly-shirly]

Im starting to regret that I started this thread. I DO NOT, I repeat, do not have any problem with any teacher charging whatever he can get. It was just a knee jerk reaction to a 25 yr old kid getting $260 hr. I only charge what I do not because its all I can get, its just that its all I personally think im worth. I dont like pricing some good people out, especially juniors. I just cant ever imagine paying that much for a golf lesson.

I'm glad you started this thread. It was worth reading just for your earlier post about what you would want to do before you felt able to raise your rates.

I just cant seem to justify raising my rates until I have the time to produce the kind of learning environment that would justify those prices. An indoor bay with Trackman and TVs, a take home DVD or instant upload to youtube, etc. Until then, I will stay the same and just work harder. I like the product I put forth, but cant justify going to top dollar right now.....especially for kids.

If there is someone else out there better qualified or better intentioned to teach golf, I haven't seen them posting on the internet. When you sometimes suspect that more or less everyone is just out to make a buck, posts like that restore my faith in humanity a little.

 

[softconsult]

Good point Birly, I'm sure there are many more. Like collusion to fix prices.

In the second week of my new job as Plant Accountant in the packaging business,
the Controller came to me and said he needed my help cleaning out the record storage
room. Box after box to the dump. A month or so later, the reason became clear.
Federal Price Fixing lawsuit. These guys would literally have meetings and set, not only,
price levels, but who had which big accounts. Millions in settlements to customers, and a few to jail.

I had a neighbor who inherited his father's chain of gas stations. At some point I asked him
how it was that gas prices seemed to change in unison. His answer? We call each other.

He moved out and the new resident was the sales manager at the Pepsi Bottler in town.
I asked him the same question. I think we were pretty drunk at the time. He explained
how Pepsi and Coke worked out whose week it was to be the low price leader. At least
he was smart. He said he mailed a note, in an envelope with no return address and drove
to the next town to mail it.

So, yes, there is no perfect world.

PS: Prior to getting in the packaging industry, I worked for an International Steamship Company.
Part of my job was to wire bribes to various ports of call to get our ships moved up the
pecking order for unloading. Seemed perfectly logical to us.

 

[Dan44GT]

Steve, your insight is priceless. No pun intended of course. I always enjoy your real world examples.

PS. Golf is not real world, but it is my world.

 

[trickyric67]

When it comes to dollars for results as I stated earlier I paid BManz tourstop rates for 2 hour sessions and have always walked away fixed solid and not really needing any real help for at least 6 months to year and after 3 tourstop sessions I am just going back when he is town for check ups and to learn new shots to get a more complet game. I have spent about $1200 over 1.5 years with Brian and while some people might think thats alot I can state for a fact that I had worked with a top 50 instructor for about the same amount of time but on a biweekly basis spending about $7000 and not coming close to what I learned from Brian. For the pleasure I get from playing and practicing what Bmanz has taught me is priceless.
Back to my point. I paid Bmanz more for the tourstop but in the end the 40 or so lessons I took from Mr top 50 was wasted cash and comapred to Bmanz's higher per lesson rate but much faster education and results. I would have gladly paid Bmanz double for what I got (but Brian, please don't charge me double).
If the information is sold then the price is worth it

 

[Jwat]

When it comes to dollars for results as I stated earlier I paid BManz tourstop rates for 2 hour sessions and have always walked away fixed solid and not really needing any real help for at least 6 months to year and after 3 tourstop sessions I am just going back when he is town for check ups and to learn new shots to get a more complet game. I have spent about $1200 over 1.5 years with Brian and while some people might think thats alot I can state for a fact that I had worked with a top 50 instructor for about the same amount of time but on a biweekly basis spending about $7000 and not coming close to what I learned from Brian. For the pleasure I get from playing and practicing what Bmanz has taught me is priceless.
Back to my point. I paid Bmanz more for the tourstop but in the end the 40 or so lessons I took from Mr top 50 was wasted cash and comapred to Bmanz's higher per lesson rate but much faster education and results. I would have gladly paid Bmanz double for what I got (but Brian, please don't charge me double).
If the information is sold then the price is worth it

I too have been to a couple top 50 instructors and have paid a higher rate and not once come out of those lessons with real results. What I mean by real is going home practicing what you learned for a couple of weeks and actually improving my game.

Not once have I gone home from a Manzella lesson confused and regressing with my swing. Take it from a guy who used to have 10-12 shanks a round, he is the real deal. No need to take weekly or bi-weekly lessons with Brian. One lesson a year can make all the difference in the world with your game.