Tour Pro's Swing speed

Status
Not open for further replies.
bcoak

bcoak

New
After watching the Tiger Challenge this weekend- especially Tiger, Stenson and Ogilvy - I am amazed at how much speed they generate from about hip level in the downswing through the ball. They are so smooth in their backswing and first part of downswing to about hip level then they just whip it through.
Beyond natural ability, how do they achieve this speed and how can I get some! Is it the pivot driving their arms through, arms swinging hard, or a combination arms/pivot?
 
P

PChandler

New
Squat and Unsquat

BCOAK

Go to the Nike website and download Tiger's swing sequences. Check out his belt line. He looks as though he is jumping off the ground without leaving his feet. He can throw a pretty "heavy drunk off of his shoulder" with his action. I noticed a lot of things after looking at the Up The Line view. Static pictures of swing sequences just don't show the movement. See it in motion over and over and isolate his belt line. He doesn't bob his head but he squats and unsquats through his action. Isolate his feet too. You can actually see his feet sink in and come up during the swing.

Sam Snead was quite the long baller in his day too.

PChandler
 
Last edited:
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
bcoak said:
After watching the Tiger Challenge this weekend- especially Tiger, Stenson and Ogilvy - I am amazed at how much speed they generate from about hip level in the downswing through the ball. They are so smooth in their backswing and first part of downswing to about hip level then they just whip it through.
Beyond natural ability, how do they achieve this speed and how can I get some! Is it the pivot driving their arms through, arms swinging hard, or a combination arms/pivot?
Click to expand...

It ain't "pure" HITTING is it?
 
P

puttmad

New
bcoak
Don't bother trying to swing like Tiger, you won't be able to reproduce the action..
The little jump he does onto his toes during the downswing, needs perfect timing which us mere mortals don't have, plus the fact, that even for Tiger it is not very reliable re accuracy these days (hence the driver hardly coming out of his bag sometimes)..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

jbrunk

New
The most impressive thing to me is his flexibility to open up his hips so far on the downswing while still maintaining 90+ degree shoulder turn.
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

New
bcoak said:
And that is?
Click to expand...

Not too long ago, the idea of using all 4 accumulators (the so-called 4 barrel swing) was an elusive one.

However, after talking to Brian not too long ago at his Manziposium at PGA, it seems like we might be just a few years away from figuring what you might call the most optimum swing. I may not be paraphrasing Brian exactly here (feel free to correct me if I am wrong, B) but it looks Tiger is swinging the club about as well as any swinger can.
 
P

puttmad

New
...

Erik_K said:
Not too long ago, the idea of using all 4 accumulators (the so-called 4 barrel swing) was an elusive one.

However, after talking to Brian not too long ago at his Manziposium at PGA, it seems like we might be just a few years away from figuring what you might call the most optimum swing. I may not be paraphrasing Brian exactly here (feel free to correct me if I am wrong, B) but it looks Tiger is swinging the club about as well as any swinger can.
Click to expand...

have to agree with you re, his irons Eric, but it is not transferring too well to his driver mate....

Optimum swing?....I thought Mike Austin did that years ago.....
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Optimum...

Well Tiger MUST be close and so (maybe) was Austin, and what about a guy name NICKLAUS early in his career?

Funny thing is:

Not a single of of them looked like a really bent-over Mac O'Grady, Olin Browne, Tom Pernice, or the (never done before) Kool-Aid stroke.

Funny, isn't it?

One day, ya'll will all find out how right I am. Science is coming!
 
Erik_K

Erik_K

New
puttmad said:
have to agree with you re, his irons Eric, but it is not transferring too well to his driver mate....

Optimum swing?....I thought Mike Austin did that years ago.....
Click to expand...

If I am not mistaken, isn't Tiger at or near the top of the list in terms of driving distance?

If you are refering to driver accuracy, well that's a little different but it's still important. A ways back on the FGI forum (dirty phrase I know) a reputable club maker pointed out that the PGA Tour driving accuracy stat is much LOWER than it should be. These guys are swinging very hard and with shafts that are quite long (duh, to produce prodigious distance and lure Joe Hacker to the store to by the club that Day, Tiger, Phil is using).

Imagine if every Tour pro put the driver away for entire season and just used 3-wood and long irons off the tee (like Tiger did when he blew away the field at last year's Open). What do you think the driving accuracy would be? 60% 70% Maybe higher?

But these guys aren't paid heavy endorsement deals to play conservatively off the tee and never swing those pricey drivers.
 
S

shootin4par

New
Brian Manzella said:
Well Tiger MUST be close and so (maybe) was Austin, and what about a guy name NICKLAUS early in his career?

Funny thing is:

Not a single of of them looked like a really bent-over Mac O'Grady, Olin Browne, Tom Pernice, or the (never done before) Kool-Aid stroke.

Funny, isn't it?

One day, ya'll will all find out how right I am. Science is coming!
Click to expand...
out of curiosity why do you say "maybe" austin had it? I would be interested in seeing his videos because he supposedly used a biomechanical/kineaseology (sp?) perspective, anyone got any firsthand insight into those?
and when you say science, do you mean biomechanics?
 
P

Perfect Impact

New
Austin's swing does not match the models put forth in SP descriptions. His pivot and use of the shoulders on plane is perfection and it simply does not have to BE SP for that. Because the shoulders do not move perpendicular to the spine: they move WITH the spine -- on a plane not far from the angle of the spine itself, delivering the arms and hands as efficiently as is possible. Brian is right that the SP models are not the best way. And yes, about the kinesiological details: when asked about why he thought his swing description was the best possible, he bellowed "YOU CAN'T IMPROVE ON GOD!"

This did not come from an ego, but from such a comprehensive understanding of the human body AND of the physics/engineering efficiencies of levers, etc. that he simply KNEW, as you and I know that 2+2=4, that his "method" was the optimum. It didn't need proof: it was self evident to him.

I say "method" because what he did was explain and demonstrate the relationships of bones, muscles, joints, club, and geometry of swing/impact that DO align for the "most bang for the buck" for "people built golfers." His explanations put into practice by everyone will look different but will be based on each golfer's anatomy. Nothing he asked of a golfer exceeded or tested his natural range or motion or strengths: he simplified anatomical properties and lined them up logically for best results swinging golf clubs into golf balls.

The Austin swing is not taught with TGM terminology or logic.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
ya, i'd love to see how far Austin hit it if he was like 5'10 and 180lbs. He was built like a house and whether anyone likes it or not, when you know how to swing a golf club IT HELPS.
 
P

puttmad

New
Jim Kobylinski said:
ya, i'd love to see how far Austin hit it if he was like 5'10 and 180lbs. He was built like a house and whether anyone likes it or not, when you know how to swing a golf club IT HELPS.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with you but for one thing...
Mike wasn't always a big strong guy, I mean how can you be "strong" at 77 years old (in proportion to a young buck)?
And yet, if you ever get to see the video of him hitting a 1-iron, through the back of the driving range at age 77, with no more noticeable effort than you see in an average "good player's" swing, then you have to think a bit. In fact you have to think a lot...
On his longest drive of 515 yards he hit it right through the green, accurate at 500 yards!!!....
No jumping up on his toes, no massively quick shoulder turn, no spinning in a tube....and he still got a measured clubhead speed of 155mph...
Mike's action was nothing like Tigers or any of the long hitters you can witness today, Brad Petersen, Karl Woodward, etc, where you can actually see the effort they are putting in...
Sixty years ago he was outdriving TODAY's distances, using balata balls and persimmons woods with a 45 inch shaft.
I'd like to see any of the modern guys try it with that equipment...

In his late 70's (around 1988), playing with Mike Dunaway in the far east, over 50 rounds they played together, Mike AVERAGED 308 yards off the tee....
Most people in their late 70's have a problem picking up a knife and fork...:D .
MA swing rocks baby...
 
Last edited:
M

Mike Olberding

New
Where?

Perfect Impact said:
I say "method" because what he did was explain and demonstrate the relationships of bones, muscles, joints, club, and geometry of swing/impact that DO align for the "most bang for the buck" for "people built golfers." His explanations put into practice by everyone will look different but will be based on each golfer's anatomy. Nothing he asked of a golfer exceeded or tested his natural range or motion or strengths: he simplified anatomical properties and lined them up logically for best results swinging golf clubs into golf balls.
Click to expand...

What you describe sounds fascinating- although I'm guessing it doesn't exist in a clear form- but that said ,where would you direct me in order to see Mike Austin "explain and demonstrate the relationships of bones, muscles, joints, club and geometry of swing/impact ...". Is there a particular book? A particular video?
Thanks,
Mike O
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top