TPI suggestion for speed increase training

[magicmarker]

Good point, and to clarify, everybody has a genetically set ratio of fast/intermediate/slow twitch muscles; and all you can do is strengthen them up because you can't increase the number of each of those muscle fibres.

false

The ratio of your fiber type is a result of:

(1) What you were born with

and

(2) Transformation of slow to fast or fast to slow through training influence.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/1137px7x66667132/

 

[ekennedy]

As always, right as usual SteveT.

I especially enjoy your Scientific Method, which consists of "I tried it, it didn't work."

 

[GaryRead]

My problem with these types of exercises is that because they mimic a golf swing in their movements, but have completely different forces and resistances at play, they ingrain the incorrect mechanics or feels that actually take away from the skill conditioning aspect. Exercises should be separate from skill conditioning and specific to the musculature targeted (ie efficient)

To expand on my first sentence in this exercise vijay is having to do the most 'work' on the backswing to raise the weight against gravity hyper extending to accommodate this(why would we want an exercise that requires a heavy load on the backswing?), and because of gravity the downswing requires the least effort to push against the weight as it falls to th ground, if anything we would want the forces at play here to be the complete opposite I.e no resistance into the backswing and resistance opposing the downswing which could be achieved with a pulley machine at shoulder height. There is no freewheeling or whipping or rotating around the co at the bottom point of the swing as the weight is too heavy to allow these desirable qualities we seek in a 'real' swing and therefore I feel this would ingrain a very rigid release.

 

[SteveT]

Quote Originally Posted by SteveT View Post
Good point, and to clarify, everybody has a genetically set ratio of fast/intermediate/slow twitch muscles; and all you can do is strengthen them up because you can't increase the number of each of those muscle fibres.

false

The ratio of your fiber type is a result of:

(1) What you were born with

....'genetically' as in 'born with'...?

(2) Transformation of slow to fast or fast to slow through training influence.

You may be able to 'transform' them very slowly, but the total number of muscle fibers is unchanged. I doubt anybody in golf will attempt to transform their muscle fibers... maybe the rear triceps to extend the rear arm faster in the downswing.

 

[SteveT]

As always, right as usual SteveT.

I especially enjoy your Scientific Method, which consists of "I tried it, it didn't work."

I tried it... I liked it... then I married her ..... damn those "feeelings"...

 

[natep]

I dont think this exercise has any influence at all on how you release the hands. Vijay has about the least rigid release you'll ever see. Also, you cant just swing the bell back and just let gravity drop it down and then let it go. You have to recruit the entire body to go normal at the bottom if you're going to make any kind of respectable throw. Thats the benefit of the exercise as I see it.

I also just noticed this thread is more specifically about speed training, and not just training in general. I should note that I dont think this drill is the best for increasing speed. In my experience the greatest speed gains can be had through forearm exercises.

 

[GaryRead]

You cannot change one type of fibre into another. It is not possible - its like trying to turn a water into wine.

You can increase the fibres size or cross section. And it just so happens that out of the 4 types of muscle fibres type IIb (fast twitch) have the most potential for strength and size increases and therefore speed. And i dont need to remind people that athletes that excel at explosive movements and speed possess naturally high proportion of these fibres.

And the the only way to train those fibres (efficiently) is the exact opposite for training the slow twitch fibres used for endurance events like marathons i.e intense, heavy and brief resistance workouts.

 

[magicmarker]

Still false

I apologize for putting a broken link into post 21.

The link has been fixed.

Blaming genetics is a cop-out IMO. Read the link, it's pretty straightforward. Read "the Biology of Belief" if you want more details as to how fluid and morphing your genetics really are on a biological level.

I can't stand when people point at someone who works out and exercises (or just practices) regularly WAY more than they ever thought about doing and says "they just have better genetics"; While it may be true, one of the reasons theirs are better is because they've improved them with a lot of hard work. Some of the 'gifted' will let you think it all just comes easy to them but the truth is they've been outworking you 9 times out of 10. Basketball, golf, ballet, piano etc.....................................................9 times out of 10 the ones that made it to the top outworked the many who did not.

 

[dschultz6072]

Someone should just ask Camilo what he did.

 

[GaryRead]

Time is of course an issue,

But perhaps in order to get a complete understanding of the golf swing and how exercise can optimize it, Brian should consult with similar folk in the exercise physiology field too.

Obviously not as important as the work being done with regards to the mechanics of the swing but perhaps still very important in order to unlock the whole puicture.

 

[GPM1985]

What about going to the range and just trying to kill the ball, while maintaining balance and making good contact? One of my favorite drills for sure.

I also think the hands, wrists, and forearms should be trained, with an emphasis on speed. Too many of the training movements I read about are way, way slower than the golf swing. If I had to design a training regimen for golf, it would involve fungo bats, jumping, and a speed bag, among other things. Fast things, like Bruce Lee's three-inch punch.

 

[dschultz6072]

Still false

I apologize for putting a broken link into post 21.

The link has been fixed.

Blaming genetics is a cop-out IMO. Read the link, it's pretty straightforward. Read "the Biology of Belief" if you want more details as to how fluid and morphing your genetics really are on a biological level.

I can't stand when people point at someone who works out and exercises (or just practices) regularly WAY more than they ever thought about doing and says "they just have better genetics"; While it may be true, one of the reasons theirs are better is because they've improved them with a lot of hard work. Some of the 'gifted' will let you think it all just comes easy to them but the truth is they've been outworking you 9 times out of 10. Basketball, golf, ballet, piano etc.....................................................9 times out of 10 the ones that made it to the top outworked the many who did not.

Sam Snead said they might have thought he was a natural, but he worked harder than anyone else...save maybe Ben Hogan.

 

[Frans@France]

Makes sense. I've noticed increases since I've been pulling on one of these machines...

Is that an XL size again

 

[aaron_lohan]

Just for your information:
the highest levels of power output are from Olympic weightlifters doing cleans this has been scientifically proven. Also weight lifters were tested at the 1968 games and were faster over 10m than the 100m sprinters and had the highest vertical jump- higher than high jumpers.
Most athletes doing olympic sports that involve speed or speed strength do cleans as part of their routines.

This would suggest that these types of exercise have the potential for cross over to increased swing speed. However as I have found when taking up powerlifting, increases in strength only give so much increase to clubhead speed, once you get past a certain level of strength there is no additional increase in clubhead speed, for me this happened fairly early in my powerlifting career.

 

[aaron_lohan]

In addition golf specific exercises are alright unless they get too heavy that the swing mechanics are altered like in the Vijay video. Runners used to run with very heavy sleds attached to them and they found it negatively effected their running mechanics which increased their running times. Now some runners still drag sleds but do so with light weights and focus on moving fast.

People say weights make you slow, I disagree lifting weights slow and for high reps makes you slow. This is why I argue that doing cleans and power cleans is good for speed because it is impossible to do a slow clean, it has to be done fast or you will not get the weight up.

 

[golfie]

It is likely difficult to recruit maximal fast twitch fibers in a golf swing.

 

[JonWil]

I believe the more the musculature is trained the more it must be taught that it is not the boss of the golf swing. It must learn to 'come to heel' of the inertial and real forces. Do that; then watch the big dog eat.

 

[GaryRead]

It must learn to 'come to heel' of the inertial and real forces.

Good Point. The stronger you become the more the urge to heave comes into play.

Ultimately, what I want my exercise to do for me is make that guys all out swing my cruising speed swing

 

[hp12c]

Makes sense. I've noticed increases since I've been pulling on one of these machines...

Hey Granato have u tried these?

 

[BIGBALL]

Hey Granato have u tried these?

Indian clubs - nice! Had some friends who used them in the past. When I was personal training, I considered getting those, but I got out of it before I ever made that decision! Kettlebells are great though. I know there was a book at one point I think just called "Kettlebells for golf." A member of the Dragon Door training website was the writer if I'm not mistaken...