fanofSnead
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Is this the same move as the ball toss in YouTube Episode 8?
Underhand Javelin Throw SDP Question
- Thread starter fanofSnead
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No. Those two moves are very different. I'd explain the differences, but I don't want to give away anything in the video. It's totally worth getting. The pattern is really as good as everyone makes it out to be
.fanofSnead
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holeout,
I already have the SDP video , so arent giving anything away. I was just questioning the differences in the two "throw" moves? In SDP he calls it an underhand javellin throw, in Episode 8 he takes a ball and throws it at a spot that would be the ball.
So can you me why you consider them "totally different"?
He also says in my Confession video that you do not get any extra power by straightening the right wrist through impact, but then in SDP video he says to hit the ball 340 instead of 240 you have to let the right wrist straighten.
This seems inconsistent. Maybe you or Brian or someone can clarify.
Thanks
I already have the SDP video , so arent giving anything away. I was just questioning the differences in the two "throw" moves? In SDP he calls it an underhand javellin throw, in Episode 8 he takes a ball and throws it at a spot that would be the ball.
So can you me why you consider them "totally different"?
He also says in my Confession video that you do not get any extra power by straightening the right wrist through impact, but then in SDP video he says to hit the ball 340 instead of 240 you have to let the right wrist straighten.
This seems inconsistent. Maybe you or Brian or someone can clarify.
Thanks
The ball throw drill in Episode 8 is designed to help people pivot better and "snap the chain". It can be used for slicers or hookers. Slicers try and hit the ground out to the right of the line, hookers try and hit the ground left of it.
The underhand javelin throw is mainly a move to help people who have problems pulling the ball. It gets you to point the club a little more right of target late in the swing, and paired with the "Toss" release you will have an easier time hitting a draw for that pattern.
As far as the right wrist straightening, I'll have to re-watch Confessions. Brian's views have probably changed a bit since making that video though. Once he gets back from "the Show", maybe he'll chime in.
...
Hi mate,
You will get more clubhead speed by straightening the right wrist thro impact.....simple mechanics...which is helped by having a bowed left wrist on the downswing, as many tour pros do...
Hi mate,
You will get more clubhead speed by straightening the right wrist thro impact.....simple mechanics...which is helped by having a bowed left wrist on the downswing, as many tour pros do...
"Really, Really Bent"
The point in SDP is to have more right wrist bend at the top than at address or impact and some cocking_he refers to it as "really, really bent." You do "let the right wrist straighten" in the downstroke but it is still bent at impact.
DRW
The point in SDP is to have more right wrist bend at the top than at address or impact and some cocking_he refers to it as "really, really bent." You do "let the right wrist straighten" in the downstroke but it is still bent at impact.
DRW
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Good stuff
fanofSnead
New
those were some excellent posts, thanks guys. All of your responses have helped clear the fog...
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The Bent Right Wrist.
Is straightening the bent right wrist an "Power Generator" (or TGM-style accumulator)?
Not quite.
The right wrist bends and COCKS on the backswing and the UN-COCKING, with some of the right wrist straightening, is a "Power Generator."
The "Underhanded Javelin Toss" is totally optional in the SDP, but I put it in their because, well, it is part of the pattern for many.
It is different than the ball toss.
UJT is more pitch elbow (elbow leading hands leading clubhead) as well as more early axis tilt, and the ball throw is SLIGHTLY more punch elbow (hands leading elbow leading clubhead) and LESS early axis tilt.
Is straightening the bent right wrist an "Power Generator" (or TGM-style accumulator)?
Not quite.
The right wrist bends and COCKS on the backswing and the UN-COCKING, with some of the right wrist straightening, is a "Power Generator."
The "Underhanded Javelin Toss" is totally optional in the SDP, but I put it in their because, well, it is part of the pattern for many.
It is different than the ball toss.
UJT is more pitch elbow (elbow leading hands leading clubhead) as well as more early axis tilt, and the ball throw is SLIGHTLY more punch elbow (hands leading elbow leading clubhead) and LESS early axis tilt.
fanofSnead
New
Brian,
Thank you sir.
I broke out old my old Wild Bill Melhorn video and he said he based his whole swing on that "back and forth" motion you are doing in the SDP video. He said it helped synchronize the arms and body.
I'm unsure if Melhorn was throwing in any right hand power at the bottom, (hitting?) but apparently even Hogan said he was one of the better ball strikers he'd ever seen.
When will you start teaching in Louisville? I need to make the trek from Indy as early as possible. April?
Thank you sir.
I broke out old my old Wild Bill Melhorn video and he said he based his whole swing on that "back and forth" motion you are doing in the SDP video. He said it helped synchronize the arms and body.
I'm unsure if Melhorn was throwing in any right hand power at the bottom, (hitting?) but apparently even Hogan said he was one of the better ball strikers he'd ever seen.
When will you start teaching in Louisville? I need to make the trek from Indy as early as possible. April?
SDP Transition-Downstroke
SDP Transition-Downstroke
Understanding:
*In the backstroke, the butt end after the first parallel and approaching the top points well inside the plane line or almost vertical. This contrasts with having the butt end pointing toward the plane line.
*After transition, the optional javelin throw positions the butt end to point one yd right of target.
Question:
What happens or makes it easier to get the butt end pointing right of target from this “butt end pointing inside the plane line” position instead of having the butt end pointing toward the plane line?
Thanks
SDP Transition-Downstroke
Understanding:
*In the backstroke, the butt end after the first parallel and approaching the top points well inside the plane line or almost vertical. This contrasts with having the butt end pointing toward the plane line.
*After transition, the optional javelin throw positions the butt end to point one yd right of target.
Question:
What happens or makes it easier to get the butt end pointing right of target from this “butt end pointing inside the plane line” position instead of having the butt end pointing toward the plane line?
Thanks
fanofSnead
New
the counter fall probably helps drop the hands into the slot, but educating them to aim 1 yard right is even more important.
I'm working with a mirror this winter to make sure the shaft is bisecting my rt forearm when the left arm is parallel to the ground,
every good ball striker is in this position prior to release....
I'm working with a mirror this winter to make sure the shaft is bisecting my rt forearm when the left arm is parallel to the ground,
every good ball striker is in this position prior to release....
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Fanofsnead,
please refer to the right forearm thread that is currently in progress before your head explodes trying to do this.
please refer to the right forearm thread that is currently in progress before your head explodes trying to do this.
Transition
I now feel that it is all about "softening" the stronger players transition. The "weaker" player would have "too far to go" so it is not a pattern for them.
Is there a reference for associating the matrix to shot shape?
I now feel that it is all about "softening" the stronger players transition. The "weaker" player would have "too far to go" so it is not a pattern for them.
Is there a reference for associating the matrix to shot shape?
the counter fall probably helps drop the hands into the slot, but educating them to aim 1 yard right is even more important.
I'm working with a mirror this winter to make sure the shaft is bisecting my rt forearm when the left arm is parallel to the ground,
every good ball striker is in this position prior to release....
Last edited:
fanofSnead
New
Kevin,
Unsure what you mean? Is it that hard to get the club into this position via pivot and aiming the shaft one yard right of the target line. I mean if you aren't in this position at this point of the swing, you are probably not hitting pure'd golf shots.
I'll check out the thread you mentioned.
fanofSnead
New
Kevin,
I viewed the thread you mentioned about the right forearm at IMPACT, but I was talking about PRIOR to impact where clearly the shaft of the club is bisecting the right forearm of all the greats.
If I can get the club to be in this position prior to impact, I could care less if my rt forearm is on plane or above plane at impact, because I know I will be attacking the ball from the inside.
Thanks
I viewed the thread you mentioned about the right forearm at IMPACT, but I was talking about PRIOR to impact where clearly the shaft of the club is bisecting the right forearm of all the greats.
If I can get the club to be in this position prior to impact, I could care less if my rt forearm is on plane or above plane at impact, because I know I will be attacking the ball from the inside.
Thanks
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Fanofsnead, I'm just trying to encourage you to explore other options. There are countless Tour and Hall of Fame caliber players who do not have the shaft pass through the forearm at any point in the downswing.
Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
I have been watching some of these threads and my head is about ready to explode!
"Great players are always in this position!"
Baloney!
Let me summarize a few of the variables...
The spine, lower, middle, and upper is changing constantly in several directions. Specifically, in the downswing, it is bending to the right(usually), rotating, and coming in and out of forward bend, different amounts at different times for different shots for different players;
The shoulders follow the body pretty closely but to say the right(or left) shoulder is on plane is at best, an approximation;
The hands are travelling on different PATHS for different shots for different players;
The kinetic chain snaps differently for different people for different shots and different preferences;
The video camera's location has been different(even if ony slightly) for a majority of the pictures that are thrown up for comparison's sake. This might be the biggest factor.
So to pick a moment in time for a 10 frame per second stillshot and say that is how it is done is akin to thinking that the earth is still flat.
Beliefs are great, but when they crush your critical thinking skills, you also crush progress!
"Great players are always in this position!"
Baloney!
Let me summarize a few of the variables...
The spine, lower, middle, and upper is changing constantly in several directions. Specifically, in the downswing, it is bending to the right(usually), rotating, and coming in and out of forward bend, different amounts at different times for different shots for different players;
The shoulders follow the body pretty closely but to say the right(or left) shoulder is on plane is at best, an approximation;
The hands are travelling on different PATHS for different shots for different players;
The kinetic chain snaps differently for different people for different shots and different preferences;
The video camera's location has been different(even if ony slightly) for a majority of the pictures that are thrown up for comparison's sake. This might be the biggest factor.
So to pick a moment in time for a 10 frame per second stillshot and say that is how it is done is akin to thinking that the earth is still flat.
Beliefs are great, but when they crush your critical thinking skills, you also crush progress!
birdie_man
New
fanOfSnead...
A position like Hogan, Trevino, Nelson, Sergio is a good one.
But check some Nicklaus photos man. The GOLDEN Bear, baby!
Good luck.
A position like Hogan, Trevino, Nelson, Sergio is a good one.
But check some Nicklaus photos man. The GOLDEN Bear, baby!
Good luck.
fanofSnead
New
Kevin, what are these "other options" you mention? Are they easier and/or more repeatable than swinging the club on plane just before impact?
Ive been using the SDP, are you saying that with this patternthe club does not bisect the right forearm just prior to impact?
The reason I ask is because when I stopped Brian at this point in the SDP video during a DTL angle, the club is bisecting his right forearm perfectly just prior to impact.
Not trying make peoples "heads explode" here but Im just pointing out what he is clearly doing in the "orthodox" pattern known as SDP.
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