Understanding Understanding—and the land of the Real Experts

[softconsult]

Duckslice's rephrased question let's us know that he is a golf instructor seeking to improve his methods. Fit's right in with Brian's GTE goals.

Let me expand on my lesson. I'm around a 10 and have played off and on for 50 years. I had already told him what I wanted to work on. Number 1 was Driver struggles, snappers left. Number 2 was pitching and chipping. I had a case of the chunks. So what surprised me?

Frankly, I was expecting a lot of technical talk. Didn't happen. He had me hit the 6 iron. Called for a draw and I did it. A fade, no problem. So he knew I was an ok player that understood how, and could move the ball around.

Next he got behind me with his Casio camera. We then looked at the results in freeze frame, (how cool). He said, "You have the most open clubface at the top of anybody I have worked with in the last 2 years."

So we spent, I don't know, at least 30 - 40 minutes working on grip. I mean in detail, precisely, over and over.

Then we worked on Driver. Ball position. How it should sole. Squaring the face. Finally, on thinking high fade. Left shoulder moving up and back. He emphasized that this fix was for what he saw in my swing motion. Voila'. Fixed.

We were time constrained on short game. He pointed out that I was popping out and was too open. Clubhead coming in to steep. Results were immediate. Problem solved. Very brief, time on the Manzella Matrix.

We did this 2 hour lesson on a cold, misty morning in Louisville. Brian was exactly as he appears on the video's. Charismatic, but not a phony bullshitter. Just a regular guy.

The reason he can do what he does is that he knows his subject matter cold.
He doesn't have to think what he is going to say next. I can relate.

I am a consultant in my industry. I developed a software package that runs every aspect of the plant. I know the industry, and the package like the back of my hand since I wrote every line of code. Next week I have a week long visit at an existing customer. I will be in meetings with the owners and the employees. There is no preparation, and zero anxiety about what questions they will ask. Piece of Cake. Same questions, different plant.

Pretty sure that sums up Brian's situation. Same problems, different golfers.

Final thought. You have to pay your dues. There are no short cuts.
Learning requires the investment of time and money. If I was a golf instructor in need of a learning experience, trust me, I would find the money.
$250 plus T&E for a two day seminar, I mean come on. That is the bloody bargain of the century.

Good luck,

 

[duckslice]

Duckslice,

As a teaching pro, what interests me most when watching other teachers is watching the order they do things in. Brian did things in a different order than I had been doing and was able to cut out some steps because his order may address more than one thing at a time without having to tell the student.

As strange as it sounds, he teaches in a way most of us wish we were comfortable teaching. His only goal is to get the information across and fix 'em. It was very enjoyable to watch and as he has admitted many times, "you better be able to flat out teach if you're going to have a big mouth like me"-Brian

If you go watch you will learn and be better for it.

Very well said. I’m planning to attend in the next GTE. There is a knack for knowing how to proceed in fixing a student. Experience gained through trial and error is probably the best way to develop this knack. I’m continually looking for refinement and short cuts to get golfers hitting it better sooner.

From a distance, I watched the first assistant at my club (I’m the Director of Instruction) give a golf lesson the other day. He has a very, very basic understanding of ball flight, but he has limited teaching experience. He gets a fair amount of lesson requests because he is one of the top players in the Georgia PGA. His student was hitting big leading edge divot hooks. My assistant didn’t have enough “tools in the shed” to fix his student in a long term, effective way. And, possibly could have made the student worse by only focusing on getting his clubface more open without adding the other ingredients to make the more open face work. The fairly solid, leading edge divot hooks quickly turning into straight right shots, thins, and the occasional shank. Yikes!!! He opened up a huge can of worms and struggled to get out of it. In a way teaching golf can be like the old courtroom lawyer axiom: Don’t ask a question you don’t know the answer to. In golf instruction terms, don’t make a change in a student unless you already know the result.

 

[duckslice]

A good way he described it to me was this. (paraphrasing) "I now teach like I did when I was a beginning assistant, except now I just know more". In other words, you can cut to the chase real quick if you know the right order.

I love it. Thanks Kevin.

 

[duckslice]

Duckslice's rephrased question let's us know that he is a golf instructor seeking to improve his methods. Fit's right in with Brian's GTE goals.

Let me expand on my lesson. I'm around a 10 and have played off and on for 50 years. I had already told him what I wanted to work on. Number 1 was Driver struggles, snappers left. Number 2 was pitching and chipping. I had a case of the chunks. So what surprised me?

Frankly, I was expecting a lot of technical talk. Didn't happen. He had me hit the 6 iron. Called for a draw and I did it. A fade, no problem. So he knew I was an ok player that understood how, and could move the ball around.

Next he got behind me with his Casio camera. We then looked at the results in freeze frame, (how cool). He said, "You have the most open clubface at the top of anybody I have worked with in the last 2 years."

So we spent, I don't know, at least 30 - 40 minutes working on grip. I mean in detail, precisely, over and over.

Then we worked on Driver. Ball position. How it should sole. Squaring the face. Finally, on thinking high fade. Left shoulder moving up and back. He emphasized that this fix was for what he saw in my swing motion. Voila'. Fixed.

We were time constrained on short game. He pointed out that I was popping out and was too open. Clubhead coming in to steep. Results were immediate. Problem solved. Very brief, time on the Manzella Matrix.

We did this 2 hour lesson on a cold, misty morning in Louisville. Brian was exactly as he appears on the video's. Charismatic, but not a phony bullshitter. Just a regular guy.

The reason he can do what he does is that he knows his subject matter cold.
He doesn't have to think what he is going to say next. I can relate.

I am a consultant in my industry. I developed a software package that runs every aspect of the plant. I know the industry, and the package like the back of my hand since I wrote every line of code. Next week I have a week long visit at an existing customer. I will be in meetings with the owners and the employees. There is no preparation, and zero anxiety about what questions they will ask. Piece of Cake. Same questions, different plant.

Pretty sure that sums up Brian's situation. Same problems, different golfers.

Final thought. You have to pay your dues. There are no short cuts.
Learning requires the investment of time and money. If I was a golf instructor in need of a learning experience, trust me, I would find the money.
$250 plus T&E for a two day seminar, I mean come on. That is the bloody bargain of the century.

Good luck,

Thanks for discription of your lesson with Brian. And thanks for the analogy with your industry. Where do you focus your efforts now that you know your industry software inside and out? Are you in training? Sales? Do you get bored? Do you have more to learn? Have you paid your dues? In your opinion, how many years and/or on the job experience does it take to pay your dues in your industry? How about in the golf instruction industry?

 

[softconsult]

Thanks for discription of your lesson with Brian. And thanks for the analogy with your industry. Where do you focus your efforts now that you know your industry software inside and out? Are you in training? Sales? Do you get bored? Do you have more to learn? Have you paid your dues? In your opinion, how many years and/or on the job experience does it take to pay your dues in your industry? How about in the golf instruction industry?

Interesting questions. I will make an attempt to answer. Keep in mind that this uses my experience simply as a one person example.

Have I paid my dues? Oh, yes. Something like this.

Screwed around with various blue collar jobs after dropping out of college at age 19. I have been a roofer, an appliance store delivery driver, a UPS Hub worker, and an aero mechanic at Boeing building 737's and 747's.

Went to Vietnam for a couple of years floating on Aircraft carriers. Went back to college and finished in about 3 years with an Accounting degree, while working a 40 hour week at 7-11's on 3 different shifts. Held up 4 times at gunpoint, but never shot! Never took a quarter off. I was playing catch up.

2 years as accountant with a large forest products company. This job was doing the books for 13 tramp freighters sailing all over the world. Then went to work as an accountant in my industry for 2 years, promoted to Controller at a plant on the other coast. 2 years later talked my way into sales.
2 years later became Sales Manager. 3 years later became General Manager of our plant in Ohio. 4 years later plant was sold, and I got fired. Moved south to run a plant in Tennessee for 4 years. Quit and went to work for a competitor. Lawsuit over non-compete contract forced me to stay 200 miles away for 18 months cooling my heels. They needed computer help. I went to the bookstore and bought programming books. They were thick and pretty much un-intelligible. I was a self-taught Lotus 123 expert, but didn't even have Windows or a mouse. I taught myself database programming and started writing an application. Then an old friend called and told me that in 1 year he and another guy I knew were going to quit their nice big corporate jobs, and start their own company.

They did, and we did a gentleman's agreement. I traveled something like 200 days that year and implemented the application at one desk in the middle of their old nasty office. No network, people sharing 1 PC. About a year in, he found $12,000 for more PC's and a network. We bought Gateway computers and cabling from someplace in New Jersey. This was pre-internet revolution.
The maintenance guy and I strung the cable and I did the connects with a pocket knife. I knew zip, but I did know I had to make it work. Spent the weekend on the phone with Gateway support holding my hand. On Tuesday morning we were up and running. Felt great!

It's 13 years since that installation. With no advertising or solicitation, strictly word of mouth, I now have 15 plants in the east that totally depend on my application. Dues paid. I also quit golf cold turkey from age 49 to around 60. No time.

Where do I focus my efforts? Mostly on trying to improve my golf game.
The addiction has returned. I do still travel, but the internet allows me to
do my job in my underwear from home. I am alway creating something new, and doing special projects for my customers. I also will sometimes do pure management consulting. This actually means I sell my knowledge to people
who don't really know best practices. Said another way. It's typically sales guys that start these companies. If you know sales people, you understand why they have the need.

Do I get bored? You bet. It's a curse that goes with extreme creativity.
Doing the same thing over and over was what I did for years. I'm one of
the lucky people that is doing what they really enjoy. Mr. Fixit, who no longer has to fight the daily business war.

Do I have more to learn? Absolutely. Always be open to new experiences and ideas. I always knew that I should listen carefully to the people who actually do the work, either in the office, or out in the plant. I tell them that are no stupid questions and encourage them to tell me how we could make things easier and more efficient. Many, many good ideas that I have incorporated in my application, were not my ideas. No matter the industry, of sector, you can't really learn everything from books. You have to actually do the work. Hopefully, with a mentor.

How many years to pay your dues in my industry? Impossible to answer.
One of my favorite expressions goes something like this. 10 years experience, may be good, unless it was the same year repeated 10 times in a row.!

How many years in the golf industry? I have no clue. My bet is that the guys actually making a living and growing their client base, have put in many, many years of hard work with some fortuitous twists of fate along the way.

Hope it helps.

 

[ssssc]

Interesting questions. I will make an attempt to answer. Keep in mind that this uses my experience simply as a one person example.

Have I paid my dues? Oh, yes. Something like this.

Screwed around with various blue collar jobs after dropping out of college at age 19. I have been a roofer, an appliance store delivery driver, a UPS Hub worker, and an aero mechanic at Boeing building 737's and 747's.

Went to Vietnam for a couple of years floating on Aircraft carriers. Went back to college and finished in about 3 years with an Accounting degree, while working a 40 hour week at 7-11's on 3 different shifts. Held up 4 times at gunpoint, but never shot! Never took a quarter off. I was playing catch up.

2 years as accountant with a large forest products company. This job was doing the books for 13 tramp freighters sailing all over the world. Then went to work as an accountant in my industry for 2 years, promoted to Controller at a plant on the other coast. 2 years later talked my way into sales.
2 years later became Sales Manager. 3 years later became General Manager of our plant in Ohio. 4 years later plant was sold, and I got fired. Moved south to run a plant in Tennessee for 4 years. Quit and went to work for a competitor. Lawsuit over non-compete contract forced me to stay 200 miles away for 18 months cooling my heels. They needed computer help. I went to the bookstore and bought programming books. They were thick and pretty much un-intelligible. I was a self-taught Lotus 123 expert, but didn't even have Windows or a mouse. I taught myself database programming and started writing an application. Then an old friend called and told me that in 1 year he and another guy I knew were going to quit their nice big corporate jobs, and start their own company.

They did, and we did a gentleman's agreement. I traveled something like 200 days that year and implemented the application at one desk in the middle of their old nasty office. No network, people sharing 1 PC. About a year in, he found $12,000 for more PC's and a network. We bought Gateway computers and cabling from someplace in New Jersey. This was pre-internet revolution.
The maintenance guy and I strung the cable and I did the connects with a pocket knife. I knew zip, but I did know I had to make it work. Spent the weekend on the phone with Gateway support holding my hand. On Tuesday morning we were up and running. Felt great!

It's 13 years since that installation. With no advertising or solicitation, strictly word of mouth, I now have 15 plants in the east that totally depend on my application. Dues paid. I also quit golf cold turkey from age 49 to around 60. No time.

Where do I focus my efforts? Mostly on trying to improve my golf game.
The addiction has returned. I do still travel, but the internet allows me to
do my job in my underwear from home. I am alway creating something new, and doing special projects for my customers. I also will sometimes do pure management consulting. This actually means I sell my knowledge to people
who don't really know best practices. Said another way. It's typically sales guys that start these companies. If you know sales people, you understand why they have the need.

Do I get bored? You bet. It's a curse that goes with extreme creativity.
Doing the same thing over and over was what I did for years. I'm one of
the lucky people that is doing what they really enjoy. Mr. Fixit, who no longer has to fight the daily business war.

Do I have more to learn? Absolutely. Always be open to new experiences and ideas. I always knew that I should listen carefully to the people who actually do the work, either in the office, or out in the plant. I tell them that are no stupid questions and encourage them to tell me how we could make things easier and more efficient. Many, many good ideas that I have incorporated in my application, were not my ideas. No matter the industry, of sector, you can't really learn everything from books. You have to actually do the work. Hopefully, with a mentor.

How many years to pay your dues in my industry? Impossible to answer.
One of my favorite expressions goes something like this. 10 years experience, may be good, unless it was the same year repeated 10 times in a row.!

How many years in the golf industry? I have no clue. My bet is that the guys actually making a living and growing their client base, have put in many, many years of hard work with some fortuitous twists of fate along the way.

Hope it helps.

bravo, sir!!!

 

[savydan]

Great post, Steve.

 

[Shot Limit]

Nice post Softy, thanks for your service to the country. Got any exp. with Oracle ERP's? We're about six months in and having a blast with it.

 

[Richie3Jack]

To me it seemed like he could read people, size them up quickly and fix'em fast.

Funny, a buddy and I were talking about this last night when it comes to teachers/instructors/coaches, etc.

Eventually we came around to the philosophy that any good instructors, regardless of what they are instructing, have quality knowledge, but are great at understanding people.

This buddy is a childhood friend of mine and we went over good school teachers, coaches, etc that we both shared and sure enough, they were all great at understanding people and relating to them.





3JACK

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i went from hacker to manzella academy instructor in i think about 4 years...learn from "the man" and you cut out a lot of time

 

[softconsult]

Nice post Softy, thanks for your service to the country. Got any exp. with Oracle ERP's? We're about six months in and having a blast with it.

None. My standard line is that I am a pretend Geek. I have what the typical tech guy or programmer doesn't have, namely actual real world business experience. I also have always worked very hard on people skills and communication skills.

 

[birdie_man]

Good post Mr. Steve.

"If you keep on doing what you always did, you'll keep on getting what you always got."

 

[bax1865]

How do the best get to be the best?

For those of us that teach for a living, how much do you base your success on:

Education like GTE Seminars= %
Experience as a player= %
Experience from teaching= %
Learning from watching others teach= %
Born with a special gift= %
Blood, Sweat & Tears on the lesson tee= %

Feel free to add on to the list

 

[Kevin Shields]

For those of us that teach for a living, how much do you base your success on:

Education like GTE Seminars= %
Experience as a player= %
Experience from teaching= %
Learning from watching others teach= %
Born with a special gift= %
Blood, Sweat & Tears on the lesson tee= %

Feel free to add on to the list

I dont know about % numbers, but I would say my order of importance is

1. Experience from teaching/ blood & sweat
2. Education from mentors (Dennis Clark, Mike Hebron, Brian Manzella)
3. General Sports IQ
4. Experience as a player
5. Taking lessons myself/ Experimenting with what works
6. Owning a Trackman
7. Maybe born with a good temperament for teaching

 

[Matt Bryda]

Mine is
1. experience as a player
2. education from mentors
3. athletically inclined
4. Watching other teachers teach
5. desire to pass along good information/enjoy helping others
6. belief in self/always is A WAY
7. experience on the lesson tee


Matt

 

[softconsult]

I see none of the teachers listed this skill.

Communication. I include both the ability to ask clear questions, and
then shut up, and listen to the answer. Also a recognition that most
people are poor listeners, so any instructional language needs to be
repeated, and maybe followed up with a challenge for the student to
re-state what he/she has been told.

You can have all the other skills listed, but without excellent communication
skills, you are, in my opinion, toast.

 

[TROYNYGOLFER]

I see none of the teachers listed this skill.

Communication.................................
You can have all the other skills listed, but without excellent communication
skills, you are, in my opinion, toast.

Good point, but I have been to several instructors who are great communicators, have good listening skills, and would make outstanding salespeople. However, too many of them left me exactly where I was or worse after the 30-60 minutes and $40-$100 I had invested. If you don't have anything worth communicating..........

 

[Matt Bryda]

Good point, but I have been to several instructors who are great communicators, have good listening skills, and would make outstanding salespeople. However, too many of them left me exactly where I was or worse after the 30-60 minutes and $40-$100 I had invested. If you don't have anything worth communicating

amen brother !