Video Answer from the back porch.....Tumble Drill + Aim primer

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wulsy

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spktho said:
You need to feel like the club--especially the club head--is falling behind and away from you until about half way down in the downswing. Then bring the clubhead around to the ball by pulling your hands in. It is the wierdest feeling for us who are too steep out of transition and it feels like it takes forever to get the club around to impact.

Kevin or Lindsey said a while ago that the cub swing should feel circular. Not just circular up and down but also somewhat around your body. When you get the more correct forces working on the club, the body pivot really changes for the better.
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You're great at describing these things spk.
 
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pokerlife

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Hmm , So the hands have to drop from the top kinda like that move Johnny Miller said Jack feels .
You know something. I have been trying to hit at the ball all this time lol. That could be the reason my body stalls .

This move feels like all the videos i never understood where they say to pull the handle past the ball and get your hands in front. Maybe today will be the day :cool:
 
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cwdlaw223

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spktho said:
You need to feel like the club--especially the club head--is falling behind and away from you until about half way down in the downswing. Then bring the clubhead around to the ball by pulling your hands in. It is the wierdest feeling for us who are too steep out of transition and it feels like it takes forever to get the club around to impact.

Kevin or Lindsey said a while ago that the cub swing should feel circular. Not just circular up and down but also somewhat around your body. When you get the more correct forces working on the club, the body pivot really changes for the better.
Click to expand...

How does the club drop? I presume its through the use of the body. The only way that I can have it drop is with negative beta.
 
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Brian Manzella

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cwdlaw223

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Brian -

Is above the baseline positive?

Could you explain the beta torque line in more detail? For example, is there slight beta torque to have the club "fall" at the start of the downswing and then a ton of positive beta torque to tumble it back?
 
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spktho

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cwdlaw223 said:
How does the club drop? I presume its through the use of the body. The only way that I can have it drop is with negative beta.
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I'm sure Brian can explain this better, but I'll give my interpretation.

Yes to the beta torque. Maybe think of it this way:

The problem starts mainly from the club being too steep right out of transition, ie. the "hit impulse" right from the top of the swing. That would be exerting positive--moving the club head toward the ball-- beta torque too soon.

To combat this, do the opposite of steep out of transition which in older terms is to "lay it off". Letting the clubhead fall back behind and away from the ball. That is a negative beta torque, but you really don't have to do much. A couple feels I have is to let the hands fall back and maybe, as long as you don't jacknife the club, let the right wrist bend or extend more during this phase while getting the right elbow down. Yes, the club face feels super open.

On the torques graph, I believe when selecting particular data points and imagining a line through those points, a positive slope would be positive torque and a negative slope would be the negative torques. The "baseline" is irrelevant then looking at positive or negative torques.
 
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spktho

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Lia, I'll give it a shot with some reasoning. The clubhead has come around to the ball at that point and is at or very near max velocity and is pulling with its maximum force. The force the golfer exerts on the club therefore has changed to being more normal or along the shaft nearing and past impact.
 
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ej20

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spktho said:
I'm sure Brian can explain this better, but I'll give my interpretation.

Yes to the beta torque. Maybe think of it this way:

The problem starts mainly from the club being too steep right out of transition, ie. the "hit impulse" right from the top of the swing. That would be exerting positive--moving the club head toward the ball-- beta torque too soon.

To combat this, do the opposite of steep out of transition which in older terms is to "lay it off". Letting the clubhead fall back behind and away from the ball. That is a negative beta torque, but you really don't have to do much. A couple feels I have is to let the hands fall back and maybe, as long as you don't jacknife the club, let the right wrist bend or extend more during this phase while getting the right elbow down. Yes, the club face feels super open.

On the torques graph, I believe when selecting particular data points and imagining a line through those points, a positive slope would be positive torque and a negative slope would be the negative torques. The "baseline" is irrelevant then looking at positive or negative torques.
Click to expand...

I hear what you are saying but it's easier said than done.The golf swing cannot seem difficult or complicated and many players find it difficult to permanently implement this move.There used to be a move called the "quarter turn" which is basically a clockwise 90 deg turn of the left forearm to start the downswing.I remember reading many people having a lot of difficulty getting the penny to drop with this move.

I just wonder what would have happened to Jack Nicklaus if a guru wanted him to lay it off like Sergio.Your swing has to work consistently under pressure and that swing is usually the one you are born with.You can tweak a swing but to radically change it's shape is near impossible.You might get good results at the range but the money is at the course.
 
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wulsy

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ej, what if your swing's crap on the range and on the course? You have to change it, right? And change it whether the move FEELS crap or good to you.
 
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ej20

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wulsy said:
ej, what if your swing's crap on the range and on the course? You have to change it, right? And change it whether the move FEELS crap or good to you.
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Well that's good in theory but I believe if a crap feeling move doesn't result in a permanent penny drop within a short time frame then that swing won't hold up on the course under a bit a competitive pressure.The "move" simply doesn't compute in your swing dna.

I don't believe for a second that Nicklaus did not experiment with a flat Hogan like swing on the practice tee.He watched Hogan enough.The acid test is what works under competitive pressure and Jack was smart enough to know what works for him and what doesn't.
 
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Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
ej20 said:
I hear what you are saying but it's easier said than done.The golf swing cannot seem difficult or complicated and many players find it difficult to permanently implement this move.There used to be a move called the "quarter turn" which is basically a clockwise 90 deg turn of the left forearm to start the downswing.I remember reading many people having a lot of difficulty getting the penny to drop with this move.

I just wonder what would have happened to Jack Nicklaus if a guru wanted him to lay it off like Sergio.Your swing has to work consistently under pressure and that swing is usually the one you are born with.You can tweak a swing but to radically change it's shape is near impossible.You might get good results at the range but the money is at the course.
Click to expand...

How do you know he didn't try to lay it off like Sergio? That may just be what his effort to do so looked like. Remember, video can't show intent.:)
Furyk says his backswing feels like all the normal ones look.
 
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