Weaker players

[SteveT]

Plus, everyone seems to forget in this mad rush to embrace "scientific swings" that all the great golf swings of the past were "home made and unscientific" swings. Including Bobby Jones, Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Jack Nicklaus, and Lee Trevino. These "unscientific" swings won a butt-load of majors and dominated the game.

If the current 126th pro golfer on the Tour went back to the past to compete with Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Trevino, he would probably win every tournament .... all because he benefits from the scientific additions to his homemade golfswing. Not so with the old timers swinging in the dark ages.

Science should help relieve the average golfer of hours of dirt digging... if that science can be cogently brought to the average golfer.

Manzella's Project 1.68 represents the vanguard of scientific golf for the golfing masses... just watch.

 

[hp12c]

Are these two suffering from lack of distance?

Hey Keving can you comment on the first golfers address position, regarding how far her hands are from her body and how strait her arms are. almost reminds me of Moe Norman. Does her address position help or hinder her?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Hey Keving can you comment on the first golfers address position, regarding how far her hands are from her body and how strait her arms are. almost reminds me of Moe Norman. Does her address position help or hinder her?

I'd say it's unorthodox but I don't know her or her ballflght so can't really comment on if it helps or hurts. I try not to say something would be good or bad by the way it looks and I'm also not a big fan of every video in super slo mo. Can't see the rhythm of the swing.

 

[DCgolf]

Hey Keving can you comment on the first golfers address position, regarding how far her hands are from her body and how strait her arms are. almost reminds me of Moe Norman. Does her address position help or hinder her?

Might be a simple case of the driver looking a little long for her. A lot of my juniors stand pretty far. I always ask why They say it feels more powerful.

 

[SteveT]

Hey Keving can you comment on the first golfers address position, regarding how far her hands are from her body and how strait her arms are. almost reminds me of Moe Norman. Does her address position help or hinder her?

Not Kevin, but let me share my observations with you and the forum. Girl Sarah is a slip of a girl who is endowed with, ummm... 'bumps' that she must clear in the back and downswings... and she does a great job of it!!!

In the backswing she gets into a great top of swing position, and then at impact she does an amazing thing ... she not only clears her hips, she clears her chest too. This must limit her application of centripetal force, but she has certainly found a neat solution to her particular physique.

Actually, Sarah has a better chance of bombing the ball than does an obese man with a belly 'bump' that forces him to abort his body rotation by blocking his hips so the momentum of his belly mass is contained. Block your hips and your shoulders will block instantaneously... ergo low shoulder torque and an over-the-top swing. Also no significant X-factor because the hips and shoulders rotate in unison.

Looking at the other girl golfer, she is modestly endowed and her swing looks more man-like. Both girls are young and great swingers.

It's the 'bio' part of biomechanics.

 

[otto6457]

If the current 126th pro golfer on the Tour went back to the past to compete with Palmer, Nicklaus, Player, Trevino, he would probably win every tournament .... all because he benefits from the scientific additions to his homemade golfswing. Not so with the old timers swinging in the dark ages.

Science should help relieve the average golfer of hours of dirt digging... if that science can be cogently brought to the average golfer.

Manzella's Project 1.68 represents the vanguard of scientific golf for the golfing masses... just watch.

LOL!!!

There is no way #126 on the 2011 PGA Tour money list (BTW that's Bobby Gates......roflmao) beats Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, or Trevino in their prime.

Money list here: PGATOUR.com - PGA TOUR Statistics

If you truly believe that you are delusional.

And if you truly believe that all it takes to create great players is to give the masses some science then you are beyond redemption.

Seriously....I have worked with Brian since 2006 and if you believe all those lessons I received prior to the "new science" were incorrect or in some ways detrimental to my game then you obviously think Brian was giving "dark ages lessons". Congrats on dissing our host.

I'd hate to believe that anyone thinks that little of Brian's years of experience and all the success he's had fixing people in the past. Maybe he just got lucky? Sounds like you're a fair weather cheer leader that is determined to jump on a passing parade even it it means ignoring the great work done by those pesky "dark ages players".

I guess we can ignore Tiger's 2000 season also since he was so "dark ages" back then.

Sheesh...............

 

[dschultz6072]

Like the people in the old balata simmon days had no idea how to hit a golf ball. The golf swing is simple. Anyone who says it isn't is making something very much more than it needs to be, especially when from the top to the ball takes a fifth of a second. Timing and rhythm is all it has ever been. Who was Hogan's coach? Nelson's? Snead's? Trevino's? Even Nicklaus only thought fit to see Grout once a year.

I am very glad Brian and company has found the righteous path, to so speak, and (I mean this in the best light possible) I hope his students don't have to come back because they will be so good they won't need the follow up lessons.

 

[dschultz6072]

Ben Hogan had a similar right arm move through impact.Hogan was considered a big hitter for his size.

Hogan faaaaaade.

who dat wit dat extended right arm? he hit it pretty good for being a skinny little runt.

 

[SteveT]

@otto 6457 .... Oh ya... I will even go further than that and say that #128 would crush all the old legends even in their prime..!!!

Also, I didn't say that just giving raw science' to the golfing masses would work.. and the proof is this fine forum where guys rush to the driving range to try a "scientific golf tip" and then come back saying it didn't work for them. Any scientific shit has got to be filtered by competent and informed golf instructors to make it palatable and digestible for the ignorant masses swinging their latest equipment.

As for all those lessons you received from Brian, I have no doubt they were very effective in making you what you are... a pre-scientific golfer. Now Brian and the entire Manzella Academy are receiving new scientific knowledge that will make them even more effective than before... and light ages beyond all the other instructors with their 'dark ages' touchy-feely methods.

As for Brian, I think I can surmise from his declarations about Project 1.68, that he will bring a new dimension to his Top 100 teaching skills and be even more effective than before. I suggest you take brush-up lessons from Brian or one of his associates to gain the benefits of the new science that will soon be available. Brian is advancing his knowledge base, and you should look forward to gaining even more from him.

FYI... I have been challenging Brian in 2003 on this forum... and even on the previous forum format. Brian knows exactly where I am coming from because I have told him what I think. Brian is taking a big leap forward with his new scientific sources, and you should not be mired in the past, but looking forward towards Brian's new and improved scientific-based golfswing system and his proven teaching skills. He's taking a risk investing in 'science' and you should support him and his team.

 

[(.Y.)]

Noticed that both girl sat into their downswing which dropped their head position, and then rose up in the downswing to ensure their hands coupling point ascended into impact. The second girl even dropped down further at the start of the downswing so she was really launching herself into impact. I love watching the naked leg action of girl golfers... as opposed to the men wearing long pants and hiding their true leg action.

Hogan's head stayed level throughout the slo-mo swing... and I bet he couldn't hit it much farther than the girls.

Hey Steve! I've been mulling a thought over in my head with all this jump and raising lowering business to create parametric acceleration around impact and as you seem to be pretty focussed on it at the moment maybe you can vet my understanding a little.

My thoughts would be cant the swing radius be shortened simply by moving the left shoulder away from the ball on the same arc of the club? Rather than a purely vertical move?

Especially for a short fella; as the swing pane gets flatter, a vertical move is going to help less and less i would have thought. In this fashion i think hogan with his shoulder rotation through the ball is doing it just about right for his physique?

 

[Dariusz J.]

Dariusz.... Hogan's swing was a homemade, non-scientific swing using ancient equipment... and masochistically digging it out of the dirt. To his credit he acknowledged that he sought out scientific solutions, particularly at the start of Chapter 2 of his Five Lessons. He also anticipated changes based on new science.

Steve, Hogan knew a lot of things in physics and anatomy. He (together with Cotton and Austin) was the best swing theorist of the non-scientific era. Yes, he anticipated a lot - the best example is his diagonal stance.

I'm no Hogan fanboy ......but to think Hogan was short exhibits a glaring lack of cogency. Just watch the Shell's Wonderful World of Golf where Hogan plays Snead. Snead was acknowledged as a very long hitter and Hogan pumps it past him several times. Hogan also won many long drive competitions during his early years on Tour.

Exactly. But if they want to diminish Hogan's length here - no problem with me. As said, it makes his achievements even bigger.

Now...can we quit beating the Hogan horse to death?

I did not start it. I just feel forced to participate when someone tries to diminish Hogan and his achievements which is a common thing on this forum. I know very well why, but I don't think discussing it will be a healthy thing.

LOL!!!

There is no way #126 on the 2011 PGA Tour money list (BTW that's Bobby Gates......roflmao) beats Nicklaus, Palmer, Player, or Trevino in their prime.

Exactly. I don't think even #26 had a chance.

Cheers

 

[otto6457]

@otto 6457 .... Oh ya... I will even go further than that and say that #128 would crush all the old legends even in their prime..!!!

Then you have jumped the shark. There is really no point in continuing this line of discussion. I can't put much credence in anything you say after that little pearl.

Also, I didn't say that just giving raw science' to the golfing masses would work.. and the proof is this fine forum where guys rush to the driving range to try a "scientific golf tip" and then come back saying it didn't work for them. Any scientific shit has got to be filtered by competent and informed golf instructors to make it palatable and digestible for the ignorant masses swinging their latest equipment.

The problem of people not grasping or properly implementing swing techniques will remain forever. That this idea is any different for the "ignorant masses" points to you wearing "rose colored' glasses. Plus, out of the 57 million golfers in the world, how many of those are reading this forum or have access to Brian or his instructors? You really have a myopic vision of reality here.

As for all those lessons you received from Brian, I have no doubt they were very effective in making you what you are... a pre-scientific golfer. Now Brian and the entire Manzella Academy are receiving new scientific knowledge that will make them even more effective than before... and light ages beyond all the other instructors with their 'dark ages' touchy-feely methods.

Again...your dismissal of Brian's previous teaching is quite astounding. My "pre-scientific" swing has been good enough to play some pretty high level golf. Those "touchy-feely" methods used by every instructor that has ever taught the game, created every golfer that has ever held up the Open trophy or put on the Green Jacket. Those "pre-science" golf swings are still the standard by which ALL golf swings are measured. This inane cheer leading you have decided is necessary to denigrate every golfer and teacher "pre-1.68" is bereft of cogency and logical thought. It's so over the top it's as if you are a cartoon sent here to generate some bizarre buzz. It's really uncomfortable to read.

As for Brian, I think I can surmise from his declarations about Project 1.68, that he will bring a new dimension to his Top 100 teaching skills and be even more effective than before. I suggest you take brush-up lessons from Brian or one of his associates to gain the benefits of the new science that will soon be available. Brian is advancing his knowledge base, and you should look forward to gaining even more from him.

Well that's a fine idea. I'm sure I'll be seeing Brian again. BTW......have you scheduled your next lesson yet or are you just wanting to date him?

FYI... I have been challenging Brian in 2003 on this forum... and even on the previous forum format. Brian knows exactly where I am coming from because I have told him what I think. Brian is taking a big leap forward with his new scientific sources, and you should not be mired in the past, but looking forward towards Brian's new and improved scientific-based golfswing system and his proven teaching skills. He's taking a risk investing in 'science' and you should support him and his team.

That's swell. But who exactly are you and why should I care what your opinion is? Are you a swing coach? What is your training? Do you play competitive golf? How many times have you gone to see Brian? You see...from where I'm sitting you are just another anonymous forum member with no appreciable knowledge of what Brian is actually doing now or what he did in the past. It's as if you appeared solely to cheer lead for some unknowable reason. It's been a great show...but it's not normal.

Honestly.....it's been a little creepy.

 

[spktho]

It's as if you appeared solely to cheer lead for some unknowable reason. It's been a great show...but it's not normal.

Honestly.....it's been a little creepy.

X2

 

[SteveT]

I don't want to get into a feces throwing match with you... just read this:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...ustomized-golf-swing-2012-brian-manzella.html


Btw... try checking out who is #128 in the Tour rankings ...LOL

 

[otto6457]

I don't want to get into a feces throwing match with you... just read this:

http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...ustomized-golf-swing-2012-brian-manzella.html


Btw... try checking out who is #128 in the Tour rankings ...LOL

No...no feces throwing contest for me. I'm obviously less well armed and it would be an unfair contest.

If you will note I already posted in your linked thread. I actually put my money where my mouth is.

As for #128, how many Majors did he win with those "unscientific swings"?

I still say your cheer leading is creepy and seems quite contrived.

 

[SteveT]

I still say your cheer leading is creepy and seems quite contrived.

Brian and I go way back, and he suffered mightily from my brutal open attacks on his TGM beliefs now proven false. Brian took a lot of shit from me and even banned me several time (three I think)... but after he renounced TGM and I returned as SteveT, Brian was humble enough to personally admit his mistaken beliefs. He wanted a truly scientific basis to his teaching, and Trackman was what convinced Brian to seek correct science. I give him full credit for that, and know of no other golf teacher who has gone to such lengths to acquire knowledge from pure scientists who were publishing useless information for the ignorant masses.

I fully and wholeheartedly support Brian in his legitimate scientific quest, but he knows from me that science is a bitch, and you can't be totally absolute or else somebody like me who is familiar with the science will trip him up. Brian is and must be a pragmatist because teaching golf is his livelihood and he must satisfy a sufficiently large market of mostly disaffected golfers who want to improve.

You obviously are self-satisfied and seem to resist new knowledge, or perhaps fear progress that will obsolete you.

In truth, I have sympathy for Brian who is now on a new and challenging path for survival in a tough business because knowledge is a tough sell. I wish him well.

 

[leon]

Yeah, never mind the world's pre-eminent golf scientists that Brian has on speed dial, its all SteveT!

 

[pokerlife]

Steve T everyone!! Once again leading the MVP race this year for knocking the most threads off topic !

 

[otto6457]

Brian and I go way back, and he suffered mightily from my brutal open attacks on his TGM beliefs now proven false. Brian took a lot of shit from me and even banned me several time (three I think)... but after he renounced TGM and I returned as SteveT, Brian was humble enough to personally admit his mistaken beliefs. He wanted a truly scientific basis to his teaching, and Trackman was what convinced Brian to seek correct science. I give him full credit for that, and know of no other golf teacher who has gone to such lengths to acquire knowledge from pure scientists who were publishing useless information for the ignorant masses.

I can certainly see why you were banned. Your "brutal attacks" are more like irritating prattle.

I fully and wholeheartedly support Brian in his legitimate scientific quest, but he knows from me that science is a bitch, and you can't be totally absolute or else somebody like me who is familiar with the science will trip him up. Brian is and must be a pragmatist because teaching golf is his livelihood and he must satisfy a sufficiently large market of mostly disaffected golfers who want to improve.

I'm sure Brian sleeps better knowing some random internet 'science expert' supports his current teaching methodology.

You obviously are self-satisfied and seem to resist new knowledge, or perhaps fear progress that will obsolete you.

You obviously know nothing about me or how hard I work at my golf. You obviously have no idea how much time I have spent working with Brian. You obviously love seeing your piffle posted on public forums and pretending you have some special connection or affiliation with our host. Getting banned multiple times does not make you important or even relevant.

In truth, I have sympathy for Brian who is now on a new and challenging path for survival in a tough business because knowledge is a tough sell. I wish him well.

I'll be willing to bet he'll do just fine. He's been doing this a long time and it seems to me he has a pretty good grasp of the subject matter.

But just in case......you keep cheering as loudly as you can.

 

[SteveT]

“I've spent most of my life golfing - the rest I've just wasted".

It's obvious you are obsessed with your golfswing and can't stand the thought that you are being obsoleted like last year's equipment. Seek help because science can rescue you from your dilemma.

Peace ..... (btw... "golfing" is grammatically incorrect because "golf" is a noun and not an adverb.)