What a good pivot looks like...and doesn't

[birdie_man]

I think Tong's was a valid question B....I don't think it's neccessarily a criticism....the kid's obviously got a great swing man.....(or at least a great top of swing position...non posed....so I'd be very surprised if he didn't have a good downswing)...

So are you gonna change his grip err what? Or does it work for him? For now or for the future...?

 

[DOCW3]

Are you saying the frame with the purple lines is not a reverse tilt (loss of angles) and out of position? Why post differences and discourage questions? Wouldn't it be better to explain what you did to correct it as shown in another frame. How could someone with his flexibility, even with a centered head, get into that position?

Relative to the lateral shift, isn't it there? So, why does someone with his flexibility need that much of a shift? All I'm saying is I don't remember it when you posted your posed positions. I still can't find those photos but you head is not over the inside of the right heel in your old sequence of the earlier site. And, it's certainly different from what Croker demonstrated in your joint video. If it's part of your teaching then why isn't that pertinent and worth clarification?

The way people learn is to ask questions even if they turn out to be dumb questions. However, I stand by my Ballard comparison for this one photo.

DRW

 

[Brian Manzella]

OK, ok...

Tong:

I have lots of players with strong grips. This young man's "normal" grip is probably slightly weaker than this particular swing. I really don't care one way or the other—s long as it works and they understand what they are doing.

Shootin4Par:

Do you have my old "Do It Right" video? It is the ony place with that pivot (currrently) on video.

DOCW3:

Oh...the purple lines....

In that pic, the young man gets all those bad angles becuase that's what golfers do who reverse pivot. If you do the "head still in the center" pivot correctly, you'd look better, for sure, but this young man would probably wind up in the same boat as many who have tried—like shootin4par—looking for an easier way.

From an ATHLETIC point of view, it should be OBVIOUS how good he looks at the top with the yellow lines on the side.

To me—it is just beautiful.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Comparing that pivot to one of Ballards huge shifts off the ball is absolutely absurd.

 

[ThomasTheTank]

Interestingly when i read the perfect pivot article a few months back I worked on using my hips more in the backswing and also not worrying so much about the flex in the right knee. This gave me a feeling of much more turn in the core. When I combined with extensor action (driven in my case by either a RFT or a twistaway) and the feeling of trying to get my hands as far from my head as I can, this moves my head and shoulders to the right without my weight shifting laterally (as my lower body is turning to allow for this motion)

This was the antithesis of what I had always read .. dont turn your hips and dont shift your head

Just goes to show ... let that lower body and hips turn back.. right hip behind me is one of my key backswing thoughts now

 

[Brian Manzella]

Recovered from the Archives...

This is a good thread, especially with a little editing.

Basically, it shows the difference between what I call a "reverse pivot," and the top of the backswing that I prefer.

Why do I prefer it?

Because—quite simply—of the very same reason that I teach everything that I teach, and why I change what I teach when I find something better:

Because in my LIVE LESSONS over 25 YEARS trying to be the best teacher,

It just works better.

I never, ever, just SAY something for the sake of saying it. I test all of this. I try all of the stuff that all of the folks who think I should be teaching something else advocate. And I test it a length.

To me, the pics below show both the "bad" reverse pivot of most golfers and the absolutely beautiful/correct/athletic position that most golfers should strive for.

 

[joeparr]

Brian,

Which hip do you teach to use—and how do you use it—on the downswing.

Thanks.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The Hips!

I tell my students to make a SHARP TURN of the right hip on the backswing.

On the downswing, I tell them to use the HIPS as a unit and make sure the hands don't pass the belly button.

Oh yeah, and the tailbone goes toward the target then toward the left heel.......very important!

 

[joeparr]

Thank you.....

 

[johngolf33]

I tell my students to make a SHARP TURN of the right hip on the backswing.

On the downswing, I tell them to use the HIPS as a unit and make sure the hands don't pass the belly button.

Oh yeah, and the tailbone goes toward the target then toward the left heel.......very important!

Brian,

With standard hip action does the Sharp Turn of the right hip initiate the backswing, and does the targetward move of the tailbone initiate the downswing?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian,

With standard hip action does the Sharp Turn of the right hip initiate the backswing, and does the targetward move of the tailbone initiate the downswing?

John,

The "targetward move of the tailbone" happens later than start down.

 

[starretj]

John,

The "targetward move of the tailbone" happens later than start down.

Uh, Oh, I need some help then because I have been trying to start my downswing with this move. Help Brian! What proceeds the move of the tailbone towards the target?

Jim S.

 

[Brian Manzella]

"Sitting."

 

[johngolf33]

Thanks Brian,

I guess you can never know too much about Zone 1. Does the Hip Slide/ Axis Tilt occur after Sit Down or simultaneously?

Who Dat,

John

 

[Brian Manzella]

After.

The axis tilt occurs AFTER "sit down."

Of course some people would need to FEEL IT differently.

 

[hg]

Do you have my old "Do It Right" video? It is the ony place with that pivot (currrently) on video.


Brian

I thought I had them all but this one I couldn't find....maybe you could do a short video

 

[puttmad]

...

The axis tilt occurs AFTER "sit down."

Of course some people would need to FEEL IT differently.

Brian,

Isn't "sitting" simply the result of tensing the leg muscles in anticipation of the forward swing and not a deliberate movement?....a bit like when you throw something? ...

And doesn't it happen before you start down?..

 

[Brian Manzella]

Brian,

Isn't "sitting" simply the result of tensing the leg muscles in anticipation of the forward swing and not a deliberate movement?....a bit like when you throw something?

There are a lot of things that MIGHT work AUTTOMATICALLY for some, but in my 25years of experience, it needs to be taught to a lot of folks.

And doesn't it happen before you start down?

Heck no.

 

[Ringer]

You have to learn to walk before you can finish.

 

[Mr Inconsistent]

When I think of starting the downswing with a sitting motion I immediately think of two people, Tiger and Sam Snead. I'd like to hear more elaboration on this.