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SteveT
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When you try to mix 'science' with 'feel'... you get bitch-slapped ...!!!!
What's Hogan saying???
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When you try to mix 'science' with 'feel'... you get bitch-slapped ...!!!!
magicmarker
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To me, it sounds like this sort of advice was more for clubhead and clubface control for 'not so good' golfers.
Hard to make a good fluid swing when the lower (right) hand has a firmer grip than the upper (left) hand.
Hard to make a good fluid swing when the lower (right) hand has a firmer grip than the upper (left) hand.
lia41985
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You think that's what Hogan meant? I did not take his use of "pressure" as a reference to "grip pressure".
The pressure is felt there because he lets the shaft flatten and the weight of the club flattens his cupped left wrist which then bends his right wrist even more and from there he engages his pivot which transports the club down and around. He never pressures the aft side or top of the shaft by pushing it away with his hand or staightening his right arm prematurely that would cause throwaway and a flip or a rolling of the club or both.
He created the pressure there and his pivot just delivered it, if his pivot stalls he must release his right arm and in doing so his right wrist and club will also be released. You want the mass of the clubhead contained, when it gets away from you, it's released and you ain't getting it back.
He created the pressure there and his pivot just delivered it, if his pivot stalls he must release his right arm and in doing so his right wrist and club will also be released. You want the mass of the clubhead contained, when it gets away from you, it's released and you ain't getting it back.
magicmarker
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He said the right thumb and forefinger were for precision by advanced golfers but that most golfers should practice swinging the club without using them, because for them they would do more harm than good.
Once you take those two off the grip or just relax them enough so that they aren't overly active, apply pressure on the shaft towards the target. Makes sense to me.
Who knows, its all speculation now though...
Once you take those two off the grip or just relax them enough so that they aren't overly active, apply pressure on the shaft towards the target. Makes sense to me.
Who knows, its all speculation now though...
I think there you are different with Hogan. He wanted the pressure to the upper part of the grip. Like right wrist pushing the left wrist.
lia41985: I think you're just on track with that. Net forces are totally something else than active forces, and "normal" is mainly equalizer than produced force. When measured, I think it will be the biggest force together (and about equal) with the linear force of the club head move. As produced, IMO not at all.
Dariusz J.
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The pressure I talked about is being exerted per se, unintentionally, because index finger is not in its neutral position (it is forced to be in extension at the limit of RoM in case of really weak RH grip). You can see it yourself while experimenting with moving your rear hand from stronger to weaker position on the grip.
Cheers
BrendanC
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- Has anyone read the bit of 5 Lessons where Hogan describes practicing with his right index finger (and thumb) off the grip? IIRC he describes this finger as a 'swing wrecker' when wrongly used in the swing.
I think he also says that learning to use this finger is the key to shotmaking.
- Don't think it has been suggested yet that Hogan was using this feel to 'line the club up'.
- Herbert Warren Wind 'wrote' Five Lessons? I don't think so. He was a journalist and he helped Hogan write it (very well). Wind also helped Sam Snead write his book - which is I think totally different. Such was Hogan's stature in the game, I would be very surprised if Wind tried to do anything but use his skills to capture and structure Hogan's ideas.
Hogan in the 1987 edition (I think) interview with Nick Seitz of Golf Digest said he would not change a single word of 5 Lessons.
EDIT: I would also encourage people to watch Hogan's Left Wrist closely in the section of video Lia has highlighted.
I think he also says that learning to use this finger is the key to shotmaking.
- Don't think it has been suggested yet that Hogan was using this feel to 'line the club up'.
- Herbert Warren Wind 'wrote' Five Lessons? I don't think so. He was a journalist and he helped Hogan write it (very well). Wind also helped Sam Snead write his book - which is I think totally different. Such was Hogan's stature in the game, I would be very surprised if Wind tried to do anything but use his skills to capture and structure Hogan's ideas.
Hogan in the 1987 edition (I think) interview with Nick Seitz of Golf Digest said he would not change a single word of 5 Lessons.
EDIT: I would also encourage people to watch Hogan's Left Wrist closely in the section of video Lia has highlighted.
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It absolutely is that. It should always pull and never push.
lia41985
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SteveT
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I think the Nesbit 3D kinetic and kinematic study of the golf swing sort of trashes Hogan's 5 Lessons. 
dschultz6072
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That was his swing thought of the day. He had a different one the next day when it stopped working. He started pulling up instead of pushing with his finger.
Virtuoso
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I think the Nesbit 3D kinetic and kinematic study of the golf swing sort of trashes Hogan's 5 Lessons.
Nesbit had 50 more years of empirical data, 84 subjects, a variable full-body computer model and a multi-camera motion analysis system.
Hogan had a slab of turf, some forged blades, a bucket of range balls, and legs he could hardly walk with. I think Hogan did pretty well with his project.
Hmmmm.......I know you have to hit the ball, but knowing HOW to hit the ball will help you hit the ball......thats where the data processed by golf pros comes in handy.
Knowing how is just part of it and is not really that important to a player to know all the tiny scientific details. There's not one good or great player out there now on any Tour and in the past that knows as much as Steve T about the science but they all can whoop his ass, how is that possible he knows more.
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