birdie_man
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One of your best of all time BDOG.
What is your #1 pet peeve...?
What is your #1 pet peeve...?
Why I don't teach a "Method," but I have a Method.
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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birdie_man
New
Archeology?
Does this mean you ask them........"Have you been into this tripod stuff??"
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Having had a lesson with him before, I know that he asks who/what you've been working with, specific mechanics, changes, etc. I know that when I worked with him, as soon as I said "He wanted me to swing more left after impact..." he started pointing his finger in an "a-ha!" fashion.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
Brian Manzella
Administrator
I don't have a method, but I have solutions.
I call it the "swing of the day."
It is the "swing" that most folks show up with on my lesson tee.
In 1984, it was a reverse pivoted, ultra upright, super weak grip, block cut slide slice.
By 1994, it was the "high right shoulder," low hands, polishers.
In 2008, it is some amalgamation of stack & tilt, "one" plane, tripod, check swing late tilt-ers.
The "Soft Draw" pattern was the cure.
Funny, it is very close to what I taught in about 1985-86.
Mad dear old Dad use to say, "Never throw away your old ties. They'll come back in style."
I call it the "swing of the day."
It is the "swing" that most folks show up with on my lesson tee.
In 1984, it was a reverse pivoted, ultra upright, super weak grip, block cut slide slice.
By 1994, it was the "high right shoulder," low hands, polishers.
In 2008, it is some amalgamation of stack & tilt, "one" plane, tripod, check swing late tilt-ers.
The "Soft Draw" pattern was the cure.
Funny, it is very close to what I taught in about 1985-86.
Mad dear old Dad use to say, "Never throw away your old ties. They'll come back in style."
By 1994, it was the "high right shoulder," low hands, polishers.
What does this swing look like and any examples on tour?
homer 'liked' a tripod that is different to what is commonly taught
The other thing to remember that Brian and others have shown that Homer made a lot (may be too strong of a word) mistakes as well, that can now be verified thanks to modern technology.
This is why I ONLY "shop" on Brian's site, he is SOLELY interested in what will teach people to get better, plain and simple.
Method teaching is the surely the easiest way to teach, but is by far (imo) the least effective. It doesn't take alot of talent to memorize a formula and regurgitate it to every student who stands before you. Please don't get me wrong, all of the teachers Brian mentioned are very good (I worked with almost all of them and numerous others over the course of a nine year playing career...with very mixed results) but everyone is different in terms of their build, height, athleticism, temperment, learning style, etc. etc. It would be great if one size fit all in the translation of the multiple complexities involved in striking a golf ball with precision (or just to bat the thing around in a respectible, semi-consistent pattern). But we all know that just is not the case. I wish I was smart enough to know that when I had the opportunity, time, talent, youth, and financial support to pursue pro golf as a career (I also wish that I had had a teacher like B.M. to help me cut through the fog and work on the remedies to my specific maladies). Anyway, that is all water under the bridge now...what matters to me (and hopefully to my students) is that I learned many different things from each teacher I worked with...I took copious notes, studied film, read everything I could get my hands on concerning the golf swing, and tried just about everything under the sun to improve (all things I have continued to do...which is why this site continues to be such a valuable resource for me). As a player back then, I had too many conflicting theories floating around in my coconut to let whatever talent I had reach fruition, but as a teacher, those experiences helped me learn that there are lots of different ways to "skin a cat". Thank-you for sharing your insights Brian...they have helped me continue my never-ending education as a golfer and teacher.
Brian/Jim, I'd be interested in your thoughts on some of the "method" teaching today.
I completely agree that each individual needs something different. But why were these "methods" successful.
Why was Ballard successful? did his swing method assist with accuracy or length. What flaw did he address
Why was Leadbetter successful? did his swing method assist with accuracy or length.
Stack and Tilt (probably helps hang back leakage hookers)
etc.
My guess is that each method is perfect for "some" students, which is why they had a certain level of success.
Very different from Brian, who has a much more "customized approach"
I completely agree that each individual needs something different. But why were these "methods" successful.
Why was Ballard successful? did his swing method assist with accuracy or length. What flaw did he address
Why was Leadbetter successful? did his swing method assist with accuracy or length.
Stack and Tilt (probably helps hang back leakage hookers)
etc.
My guess is that each method is perfect for "some" students, which is why they had a certain level of success.
Very different from Brian, who has a much more "customized approach"
birdie_man
New
"Tripod"......
I hope it doesn't have to become a big debate again...
Perhaps my mistake.
I hope it doesn't have to become a big debate again...
Perhaps my mistake.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
I call it the "swing of the day."
In 2008, it is some amalgamation of stack & tilt, "one" plane, tripod, check swing late tilt-ers.
You could call the 2008 swing the magazine combo swing method
i know that ballard came around when everybody tried to keep their heads dead still, and had real big reverse pivots. he came along, told everyone to 'load into your right side' and everybody did something in between, and were fixed!
it not always making you do something, its making you NEARLY do something
jimmyt
New
Well put!
birdie_man
New
Agreed.
Thanks guys! It may have come across as a bit melodramatic, but I know that there are alot of guys out there who had tons of talent and were driven out of the game by travelling down the wrong road in terms of the instruction they received (even though the instructor's motives were honest and straightforward....to paraphrase Brian, a great instructor has alot of tools in his toolbox). Mac O'Grady once told me (I am not a MORAD disciple, but I spent alot of time around him a few years ago) "a teachers responsibility is to develop talent not destroy it". I think method teaching has a place for certain individuals, but there have been too many great players, utilizing too many different patterns to pocket huge sums of money to believe that one model holds the key to golfing nirvana. Anyway, thanks again....cheers!
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