Why I think Tiger needs an equipment change....

[Ringer]

I know it's too late to keep Hank, and I'm certainly not saying that Hank is the greatest teacher of all time, but I think there was something far more obvious and overlooked that was the root of Tiger's woes.

When I look at Tiger's success in driving pre-Nike and post-Nike, it's irrefutable. Something significant happened to his driving ability.

Year / Percentage / Rank
1997 - 68.62 - 97
1998 - 67.88 - 116
1999 - 71.31 - 65
2000 - 71.22 - 54
2001 - 65.48 - 145
Switched to Nike Driver
2002 - 67.52 - 107
2003 - 62.71 - 142
2004 - 56.13 - 182
2005 - 54.58 - 191
2006 - 60.71 - 139
2007 - 59.82 - 152
2008 - No data
2009 - 64.29 - 83


So, the worst percentage he had with the Titleist was 65.48. Only 1 time with the Nike was his percentage any better than his WORST with the Titleist. Let me say that again.. His WORST YEAR with the Titleist was better than every year with the Nike except 1. Don't forget that also during that 2002 year he put the Titleist driver back in. Nike was throwing fits when he did.

Tiger made the switch to Hank in 2004. One could argue that Tigers numbers were going down before he started with Hank and his number have slowly crept up since working with Hank.

Everyone wants to point to Hank (and I'm not an HH fan either) but the glaringly obvious is overlooked even more because of the very same thing you probably do. You just cannot believe what the facts tell you. It seems unimaginable that the worlds greatest golfer is inflicted with just the wrong club in his hands. Afterall, aren't the greatest players supposed to be able to swing anything? But it is all there for everyone to see. Yes, equipment DOES matter.

 

[Jay845]

What year did Tiger switch from steel to graphite in his driver?

 

[rogerdodger]

Great point Ringer, I think this is a valid issue. Last year alone he tried about four different shafts before going back to the Diamana white. He also lengthened his shaft a couple years ago as prior to 2001 he was using a 43" driver. His main problem is supposedly the block. I personally find it really easy to allow a 45 inch driver drop behind me resulting in a push. In addition to the manufacturer, he may want to go back to at least a 44" club and give away a little distance potential.

 

[self-mastery]

I wonder why Nike never gave in, and made him a 975D clone?

 

[TaylorMadeAP25]

I think one must also take into conisderation that tiger isnt playing in as much tournys as he was in his early years,seems he only plays the hardest ones now, so it would be understandable if his stats are a lil worse, maybe a better study would be to check his stats in majors and the tournys he has played every year.

 

[DOCW3]

Significance

Assuming the data reported represents balls on the short grass, is it not significant to consider 1) accessibility to the hole and 2) club needed for approach? Is accuracy really that important for a professional if one has a clear shot with a shorter iron? How do today's 3 metals compare to the 975D and would this head compliment the new balls?

 

[mb6606]

I doubt it s the equipment Nike could take any driver Tiger required and either duplicate it or paint with the Nike colors and just call it a protoype. I believe it has more to do with the coaching and possibly training program.

 

[Richie3Jack]

I doubt it s the equipment Nike could take any driver Tiger required and either duplicate it or paint with the Nike colors and just call it a protoype. I believe it has more to do with the coaching and possibly training program.

Agreed 1000%.

I did a statistical analysis of this and the rest of the Tour. Basically the Tour's driving distance increased quite a bit and their driving accuracy went down a bit.

Tiger said he realized he couldn't compete with a steel shafted driver because guys like Phil and Vijay were just hitting it too far by him and getting too big of an advantage.

The problem is that Tiger's distance improved, but nowhere near the rate the Tour average did, meanwhile his accuracy went much further down than the decrease in accuracy of the average Tour player.

I believe had he stuck with Butch and had a graphite shafted driver, his increase in power and decrease in accuracy would've been more like the Tour average.





3JACK

 

[Ringer]

Agreed 1000%.

I did a statistical analysis of this and the rest of the Tour. Basically the Tour's driving distance increased quite a bit and their driving accuracy went down a bit.

Tiger said he realized he couldn't compete with a steel shafted driver because guys like Phil and Vijay were just hitting it too far by him and getting too big of an advantage.

The problem is that Tiger's distance improved, but nowhere near the rate the Tour average did, meanwhile his accuracy went much further down than the decrease in accuracy of the average Tour player.

I believe had he stuck with Butch and had a graphite shafted driver, his increase in power and decrease in accuracy would've been more like the Tour average.


3JACK

You make an excellent point. I think Butch might have helped tame his swing with the driver. I am struck by how different the Nike video swing looks from the one he actually plays. The swing portrait is smooth as silk and under control, but any time I see him on the course it's like he's trying to make sure he's 50 yards past everyone else.

There is one thing though which troubles me. When Tiger came on tour with that steel shafted driver HE WAS DRIVING FURTHER than everyone else. Everyone else was hitting graphite.

Oh yeah, and didn't he win THE BRITISH OPEN with only 2 driver shots in 4 days of competition?

Sorry, that dog just doesn't hunt.

 

[Ringer]

I doubt it s the equipment Nike could take any driver Tiger required and either duplicate it or paint with the Nike colors and just call it a protoype. I believe it has more to do with the coaching and possibly training program.

The theory that Tiger could have any club he wants from Nike is in fact the problem. Do you have any idea how many changes he has made? Like it was said before, at least 4 in just one year.

It's also VERY difficult to coach someone who is constantly changing equipment. One day they're hooking it the next day they're slicing it and the swings look almost identical. It's a problem for most amateurs within the very set they currently have. Take the following situation into consideration.

Player walks up to a par 3 and hits a 5 iron push into the sand right. Next tee shot the player makes a swing with their Driver that would possibly hit it straight with a 5 iron, but with the driver he/she either shuts the face or pulls across it. Now what are they supposed to do to fix their "swing"?

I watched the Masters very carefully. Did you notice how often he missed an iron? Almost never. But for some crazy reason the Driver is all over the place? And you want to blame the swing? When the ONLY thing that changed is the equipment from iron to driver?

It's almost so glaringly obvious that we dismiss it.

 

[gmbtempe]

Its been since 07, maybe before that Tiger has been considered long by tour standards, Phil hits it by him 30 yards since the knee issue at Torrey.

If he went back to steel he might be in the fairway but it would be 50 yards behind. I guess we might see Tiger back at Colonial and TPC Scottsdale if thats the case.

 

[mjstrong]

I watched the Masters very carefully. Did you notice how often he missed an iron? Almost never. But for some crazy reason the Driver is all over the place? And you want to blame the swing? When the ONLY thing that changed is the equipment from iron to driver?

It's almost so glaringly obvious that we dismiss it.

I think Tiger's good enough to make his current swing work with an 80% effort iron swing, but when he swings 100% at it with his driver, he cannot recover from the positions.

I love statistical analysis like this, and agree that his driver may not fit him at all, but also think that his swing is not helping him.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

LOL...i find a lot of this funny. Tiger is only behind (if he really is i haven't looked it up) only because he hits isn't optimized with his driver. I hope everyone in this thread realizes that Tiger i think is either #1 or #2 on tour for swing speed...however he chooses to play a spinnier ball and prefers a lower launch higher spinning tee ball. Thus he doesn't hit it quite as far.

BUT if he'd wise up a bit, he could be way longer than everyone again if he wanted. Just not his preference. Only thing Phil has on him is that he uses a ball that spins a ton less off the driver and he optimizes his equipment to hit the long ball.

 

[mjstrong]

LOL...i find a lot of this funny. Tiger is only behind (if he really is i haven't looked it up) only because he hits isn't optimized with his driver. I hope everyone in this thread realizes that Tiger i think is either #1 or #2 on tour for swing speed...however he chooses to play a spinnier ball and prefers a lower launch higher spinning tee ball. Thus he doesn't hit it quite as far.

BUT if he'd wise up a bit, he could be way longer than everyone again if he wanted. Just not his preference. Only thing Phil has on him is that he uses a ball that spins a ton less off the driver and he optimizes his equipment to hit the long ball.

He's got to hit it straighter. His problem is not that he doesn't hit it far enough. I know that he can be more "optimized" if he spun it less, but it'd only go further offline right now...

I don't think the majority of this conversation is on his distance, but on his accuracy.

 

[fronesis]

I don't think the majority of this conversation is on his distance, but on his accuracy.

Ah, but they are, of course, related.

I agree with Ringer, the equipment is a big issue here, but I don't think it's a Nike/Titleist thing. It's about the game changing around Tiger and his not adjusting.

So Jim is spot-on: Phil changed his driver, his setup, his ball, and his swing all in order to hit it a LOT further. Phil hits a 6 (or 6.5) degree driver while Tiger switched to a 10.5. So it's obvious that Phil is swinging MUCH more up on his driver than Tiger.

And when you add this up it become clear why distance matters. Tiger wants to hit it farther than everyone else. But with his current equipment (driver + ball) and his current approach to hitting the driver (which hasn't really changed at all over the years - he always tries to swing hard at it and he always swings down on it), the effort needed to hit it long (and still not even as long as Phil) will not put him in the fairway.

So it's not just an accuracy issue. Tiger could go back to a shorter steel shaft and hit it in the fairway, but he'd be 50 yards behind Phil. So that's just not going to happen.

But here's the big what if... What if Tiger switched to a ball that didn't spin as much and a lower-lofted low spin driver head, and then learned how to swing up on the driver?

Well, given his swing speed, he'd likely hit the ball A MILE! And if he started hitting it that far, then maybe he can swing under more control and bring the fairway back into play as a possible destination for his drives.

 

[Kevin Shields]

Id pay alot to know wht his Trackman club delivery data was throughout the bag. It would be fun to guess and see how close we could get. Im sure it would be very telling to see those numbers.

 

[self-mastery]

Its been since 07, maybe before that Tiger has been considered long by tour standards, Phil hits it by him 30 yards since the knee issue at Torrey.

If he went back to steel he might be in the fairway but it would be 50 yards behind. I guess we might see Tiger back at Colonial and TPC Scottsdale if thats the case.

In 2009, Tiger's driving average was 2 yards shorter than Phil.

PGATOUR.com - PGA TOUR Statistics

Tiger should see me and my crew for driving lessons. I can give him 50 extra yards with improved accuracy. I don't want ANY money, but he has to do an infomercial with me.

 

[mb6606]

The theory that Tiger could have any club he wants from Nike is in fact the problem. Do you have any idea how many changes he has made? Like it was said before, at least 4 in just one year.

It's also VERY difficult to coach someone who is constantly changing equipment. One day they're hooking it the next day they're slicing it and the swings look almost identical. It's a problem for most amateurs within the very set they currently have. Take the following situation into consideration.

Player walks up to a par 3 and hits a 5 iron push into the sand right. Next tee shot the player makes a swing with their Driver that would possibly hit it straight with a 5 iron, but with the driver he/she either shuts the face or pulls across it. Now what are they supposed to do to fix their "swing"?

I watched the Masters very carefully. Did you notice how often he missed an iron? Almost never. But for some crazy reason the Driver is all over the place? And you want to blame the swing? When the ONLY thing that changed is the equipment from iron to driver?

It's almost so glaringly obvious that we dismiss it.

I watched Tiger up close on the range last Sept for over an hour. He hit roughly 30 drives low draws 290 yds within 20 yd dispersion. I also watch Holmes, Watson, Vj , Phil, D Johnson, all hitting these high launched drives some out 320 yds. The dispersions we 50 yds. or more. Tiger's swing was tighter and shorter than the others and a lot more accurate. IMHO he needs to get back to the swing of his earlier years - more athletic and less programmed to positions.

 

[gmbtempe]

In 2009, Tiger's driving average was 2 yards shorter than Phil.

PGATOUR.com - PGA TOUR Statistics

Tiger should see me and my crew for driving lessons. I can give him 50 extra yards with improved accuracy. I don't want ANY money, but he has to do an infomercial with me.

Those stats can be a little misleading, at the masters and in china where they were paired together and hit drivers on long par four and fives Phil was blowing it by him, was not even close really.

 

[mjstrong]

But here's the big what if... What if Tiger switched to a ball that didn't spin as much and a lower-lofted low spin driver head, and then learned how to swing up on the driver?

Accuracy and distance are definitely related, and I see exactly what Jim's saying. However, the swing he normally makes with his irons is different from what I see whenever he steps up with a driver in his hand, mostly because he is swinging so much harder, he loses positions.

I think if you asked Tiger the above question (i'm just playing Devil's Advoate), he would state that the trade-off would not be worthwhile. He'd rather have the increased control with flighting his irons than the optimization through a lower spin ball.

I DO think that his driver is ill-fit for him, but I also think that his swing is hurting him.