Why I think Tiger needs an equipment change....

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nwb

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Its not the equipment surely? Is there anyone on this board that thinks drivers are harder to hit now than in 97??

I really think that potentially the best player the world have ever seen should be able to hit one if the monster headed drivers that are available to him custom fit!

The problem is his swing, no question and in terms of distance I agree with Jim - he is not optimised.
 
The equipment is optimized to what Tiger wants. Tiger would have to change his swing to hit the low spin high launch bombs other guys are hitting. Tiger hits down other guys hit up. I am sure Tiger has been hooked to launch optimizers tried hitting up and it doesnt work for him.
 
So you think, that softer ball and hitting down with a driver has been working for him for last 5 years or so?

He won the British hitting a three wood off the tee!
Tiger just needs a good coach who understands the total package - swing, TGM, training, equipment, technology - Brian or someone like him.
 
He won the British hitting a three wood off the tee!
Tiger just needs a good coach who understands the total package - swing, TGM, training, equipment, technology - Brian or someone like him.

This is precisely the deeper point and the deeper problem.

There are a lot of swing coaches and a lot of club fitters, but coaches who fit clubs properly are few and far between. It is about getting the equipment in their hands that give them the results they deserve for the swing they make. Without it learning is near impossible.
 
Practice vs Tourney

I watched Tiger up close on the range last Sept for over an hour. He hit roughly 30 drives low draws 290 yds within 20 yd dispersion. I also watch Holmes, Watson, Vj , Phil, D Johnson, all hitting these high launched drives some out 320 yds. The dispersions we 50 yds. or more. Tiger's swing was tighter and shorter than the others and a lot more accurate. IMHO he needs to get back to the swing of his earlier years - more athletic and less programmed to positions.

Problem is, the swing Tiger uses on the range often bears little resemblance to the one he uses on the course.
 

My thought as well. Tiger needs to learn about accumulators and a flat left wrist? Umm, I don't think so. Apart from the fact that beyond certain basic imperatives TGM is more a glossary of terms than a single method. I don't think changing Tiger's vocabulary is going to have much of an effect on his game.

Give Tiger a backswing that gives him a chance to hit a driver so that he's not hitting pop-ups and into the trees, and he'll be back to winning 6 times a year on Tour. Give him a great backswing that allows him to do it easily, and he breaks Nicklaus' record in a relatively short time. With whatever driver. I'm sure Tiger has hit a hundred drivers on various machines and is well aware of what he is doing on that front.

As for training, conditioning, the mental side of the game, etc. Tiger needs zero help. He's miles beyond anyone who would teach him.
 
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Its not the equipment surely? Is there anyone on this board that thinks drivers are harder to hit now than in 97??

No, of course not; drivers are MUCH easer to hit now. But that's precisely the point!


If they made everyone go back to a Persimmon 1 Wood and a Titleist balata, Tiger would hit it past folks again (by hitting down on it with a soft ball!). It's the fact that drivers have gotten easier to hit longer that has taken away Tiger's advantage. More than this, other players have changed their swings to get the most out of the new technology, and Tiger hasn't.

Tiger struggles with the driver now because he's hitting down on a soft ball with a higher lofted driver, producing all sorts of spin. And at the same time, he is TRYING (but failing) to hit it as far as Phil, and this means he's swinging at it so damn hard that he's missing the fairway.

My point: give Phil a balata ball and persimmon driver and he Tiger would get his advantage back. That's not going to happen, so the best Tiger can do is to optimize HIS equipment and setup for the driver the way that Phil (and lots of others) have.
 
No, of course not; drivers are MUCH easer to hit now. But that's precisely the point!


If they made everyone go back to a Persimmon 1 Wood and a Titleist balata, Tiger would hit it past folks again (by hitting down on it with a soft ball!). It's the fact that drivers have gotten easier to hit longer that has taken away Tiger's advantage. More than this, other players have changed their swings to get the most out of the new technology, and Tiger hasn't.

Tiger struggles with the driver now because he's hitting down on a soft ball with a higher lofted driver, producing all sorts of spin. And at the same time, he is TRYING (but failing) to hit it as far as Phil, and this means he's swinging at it so damn hard that he's missing the fairway.

My point: give Phil a balata ball and persimmon driver and he Tiger would get his advantage back. That's not going to happen, so the best Tiger can do is to optimize HIS equipment and setup for the driver the way that Phil (and lots of others) have.

Great post. Tiger's hitting the new stuff the old way, and Phil (to his credit) is hitting the new stuff the new way. 6* of loft + positive AoA + 120 mph SS = BOMBS!
 
You make an excellent point. I think Butch might have helped tame his swing with the driver. I am struck by how different the Nike video swing looks from the one he actually plays. The swing portrait is smooth as silk and under control, but any time I see him on the course it's like he's trying to make sure he's 50 yards past everyone else.

There is one thing though which troubles me. When Tiger came on tour with that steel shafted driver HE WAS DRIVING FURTHER than everyone else. Everyone else was hitting graphite.

Oh yeah, and didn't he win THE BRITISH OPEN with only 2 driver shots in 4 days of competition?

Sorry, that dog just doesn't hunt.

IMO, Butch really didn't tame down his driver swing. I saw plenty of times, even when it didn't work, when Tiger let the shaft out of it with the driver when he was working with Butch.

I think Tiger came to Butch with a really good swing, Butch more or less turned the swing into something where Tiger could use his athleticism more and then Tiger developed that great short game.

I think Haney came in and did so many things that took away a lot of the advantage that Tiger had when it came to ballstriking. But, Tiger is a great athlete and also greatly improved his putting under Haney, so that's why he was able to win majors, but not in the dominating fashion he did under Harmon. I'll give some credit to the rest of the field raising their level of play, but to me it was more of the Haney effect on making Tiger a lesser ballstriker.

All I know is that Tiger still has the same clubhead speed, but doesn't hit it as far vs. the rest of the field...even before he started skying shots. Why? Hit attack angle is -3* with the driver. The PGA Tour average with the driver is -1*. And yes, that 2 degrees can make a big difference.

That rotates the path out to the right, but Tiger swings well out to the right with the driver as well. So the path is now even further to the right.

Which is fine if you like to set up to hit a sizeable draw. But with Tiger gripping the club in his palm in the left hand, something Haney taught him, the face doesn't square up on time and sometimes the face gets wide open and thus the dead block right happens. Try the palm grip in your left hand sometime, it's no small wonder Tiger hits the dead block.

I just don't see it as an equipment problem. I think if he had steel shaft in his driver or a different company's driver, he would still struggle with the same shots. Impact is objective and things like attack angle and a palm grip in the left hand making it difficult to square the face consistently have little to do with equipment or shaft you are using.





3JACK
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I hate to tell you guys this, but.....

I could get Tiger 30 yards in 30 minutes.

It is a TECHNIQUE problem.

Then, once the technique is different/better, he'd need a different fit.
 
I watched the Masters very carefully. Did you notice how often he missed an iron? Almost never. But for some crazy reason the Driver is all over the place? And you want to blame the swing? When the ONLY thing that changed is the equipment from iron to driver?

It's almost so glaringly obvious that we dismiss it.


I noticed it ... but the smallest of swing flaws, will without a doubt be magnified with the driver ( due to loft, length of club, etc.) The root of his issues are swing related. I say send Tiger to Manzella and get his swing back in gear!
 

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I could get Tiger 30 yards in 30 minutes.

It is a TECHNIQUE problem.

Then, once the technique is different/better, he'd need a different fit.

bingo! as i said earlier, he chooses to hit the driver different. end of story; even seeing his basic trackman data they show on tv can tell you that.

it's up to him to change it
 
FWIW

1996-Turned Pro with Titleist and Nike contracts.
- Titleist R&D reported his initial ball speed at 180 mph with nearly optimum spin, using the wound Professional ball and 9 degree driver
1997-Using 975D driver with Ti head. Won Masters as first major.
2000-Won Memorial using a solid ball provided by Nike (manufactured by ?) leading to the rapid disappearance of wound balls like the Professional.
-Titleist introduced the Pro V1
2002-Finished 12th in AT&T PB using Nike Driver with steel shaft
2003-D sometimes in play
-GD article has Tiger’s ball speed with graphite shaft at 200 mph
2004-Using graphite shafted Nike driver
2005-Second in driving distance with 312+ average
-Research using the MATT (Motion Analysis Technology by Taylor Made) System referenced in golf instruction.
2009-GD article attributed to Tiger refers to post-surgery ability to finally make the swing wanted by HH
 
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I think we're talking chicken and egg.

Why would you try to fix someone when their resulting shots with the "fix" would be negative?

Fix BOTH immediately.
 
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