Why Tiger misses to the right now

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Jim Kobylinski

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I'll give everyone to tomorrow night for why, in my honest opinion, tiger misses right with his new hank haney swing BESIDES his "hit impulse" as others have mentioned.

Last hint:

Has to do with being laid off and rotation....i'm practically giving you the answers guys.
 
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hue

New
Most of his blocked right shots at Doral came from his bunt type shot where he had an abbreviated finish. If you watch the harsh finish the shaft wobbled which indicates adding. It was not a shoot hold and rest type swing that Ben Doyle teaches. The finish also looked high which would indicate a steered shot with the follow-through above plane. .
 
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Non-AuthorizedTGM

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quote:Originally posted by brianman

If I was trying to have the club on "parallel planes" I'd either shank it or right it.
Click to expand...


Ding Ding Ding....And we have a Winner!!!

Poor Concept of Plane....

He uses the "Congruent Plane Angle Theory".....Two seperate planes that have the same angle of degree....Thus a plane shift out to the right.....


I guess Hank isn't tellin him the "Plane Truth"...or is He?



NAT
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Yup, brian had to step in and win.

Since Tiger believes in the parallel angles theory you HAVE TO OVER-ROTATE YOUR LEFT ARM past the "1/4 turn" to the plane almost every swinger uses.

Try it out: Get to the "end" of a very normal swinger's backswing. "Do it right" and you'll end up with a nice flat left wrist and a clubshaft pointing "down the target line." Now, keep in mind if you can't get the club to parallel it will LOOK "laid off" but it isn't. Why? Because you are still pointing to an extension of a plane line. Now rotate your left arm MORE while keeping a flat left wrist, what happens? I'll tell you: You'll end up with a club that is "laid off" and that points OUTSIDE the plane line.

So, how does this factor in to him hitting it right?

If he doesn't rotate that forearm back to the "1/4 turn" position he will way out to the right and leave right if he holds it off or if he flips it he'll hook it. Next time you are watching tiger play i want you to either use your DVR or Tivo to watch his swing frame by frame.

If you find a swing of his that gets to parallel stop the DVR/Tivo and hold up your remote control to be inline with the clubshaft and watch how far outside the ball it points. Now i want you to go frame by frame in his downswing, if he gets that left forearm rotated BACK the butt end of the club will point at the ball again and he'll hit a great shot 99% of the time. If he doesn't get that left arm rotated back to where it should be, FOOOOOORE RIGHT! ;)

Now some of you may not agree with me but Brian and Non-Authorized does so I think i'm coverd :D
 
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Damon Lucas

Super Moderator
Just interested NAT and Brian and Jim,

If what he does causes a "plane shift to the right", then for the ball to go right of normal, wouldn't the 'clubface' have to be even more open than normal(ie more open than the shifted plane).
So the plane shift has the biggest effect?
Does the 1/4 turn arm rotation have more effect?
Path? Clubface?
Does the plane change cause the clubface change? Or vice versa?

Hmmm[?]
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
IMO it's how much he rotates his left forearm in the backswing. If you rotate it that open with that weak of a grip and then only let it rotate the "normal amount" into the ball that will cause the ball to start off to the right because it has never squared up. The plane shift only ADDS to that fact.

Just my opinion though. Because when he does get that left forearm rotated back to where it should be to deliver into the ball he is much more "on plane" and hits a great shot.

As i said before in this post, 3rd round...14th hole...8 iron into the sun was a perfect shot. He didn't even get to parallel and STILL over rotated the forearm. the butt end of the club was pointing WAAAY outside the ball but he corrected it on the downswing and pulled off a wonder shot.
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

IMO it's how much he rotates his left forearm in the backswing. If you rotate it that open with that weak of a grip and then only let it rotate the "normal amount" into the ball that will cause the ball to start off to the right because it has never squared up. The plane shift only ADDS to that fact.

Just my opinion though. Because when he does get that left forearm rotated back to where it should be to deliver into the ball he is much more "on plane" and hits a great shot.

As i said before in this post, 3rd round...14th hole...8 iron into the sun was a perfect shot. He didn't even get to parallel and STILL over rotated the forearm. the butt end of the club was pointing WAAAY outside the ball but he corrected it on the downswing and pulled off a wonder shot.
Click to expand...

Very interesting. In one of his books ("Golf for Juniors", I think), Johnny Miller confessed to having a similar problem with the driver and said that, if he had it to do over again, he'd probably adopt a stronger grip.
 
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jap4s

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A couple of things with this forearm rotation idea. How do you measure forearm rotation? What role does the angle of the camera have on what you are seeing?
 
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EdZ

New
quote:Originally posted by mb6606

Here is another opinion:
http://www.golftipscc.com/profiles/index.html
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If you take a look at Jose Maria's takeaway (first section of clip), you will see not only a great move, but one of the key areas that Tiger has changed in this 'new' swing

yes, camera angles have a huge impact, and the one of Jose is a good one to see the difference between a good takeaway, and one that is all too easy to get off plane (the 'lift and roll').
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by jap4s

A couple of things with this forearm rotation idea. How do you measure forearm rotation? What role does the angle of the camera have on what you are seeing?
Click to expand...

When you "swing," your left hand should turn to the plane. That's it. It is a simply a 1/4 of the left forearm.

So put your left hand out to shake someone's hand. Now turn it palm down, you've just rotated to the plane.
 
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jap4s

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How did you measure this forearm rotation when looking at Tiger's swing. I understand how the forearm rotates. I am not sure how you determined this is the fault of TW. Just trying to understand the conclusion.
 
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dbl

New
Cochran and Stubbs had an interesting take on this. If you put your left hand out to shake hands and then do a backswing...the body turn, shoulder turn and arm lift almost gets the left wrist on plane. They say you need about 30 degrees more rotation to get there.

So in determining actual degrees of "how much" someone is rotating too much or too little, you'd have to compare to a state we might not see.

But I think what the SP problem (or parallel planes) does for TW is that since Haney's arm plane is much flatter than desirable, TW has to rotate his wrist "more" than he should for being on a proper plane coming down.

I will now go await correcting! ;)
 
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jap4s

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Is Tiger's swing flatter? Although his position at the top is more laid off now, I have yet to see a his arms in a flatter position.
 
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