Without radar you are pure guessing....sigh

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Jim Kobylinski

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As Bmanz has said in the past, without a trackman or flightscope you are pure guessing and as usual, he's right.

I was messing around on a flightscope over the weekend and worked out some iron issues. Hit my 1st practice bucket of the year (yes that isn't a typo) trying to work on those things and i just don't know if i was doing them right. Missing that instant feedback of knowing face, path, aoa, delivered loft, distance, is as bad as crack.

Who needs a kidney? I can be ok with one, i needs to buy me a radar machine :D
 
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welshdentist

New
I prefer...


The orange box is a witch, burn her, BBURRRRNNNNNNNNNNNN her...............

Which is basically saying the same thing. Some golfers for sure do a better job at working out their own fundamentals and some great teachers throughout the ages were "human" trackmen such as the great John Jacobs.

What I sometimes don't understand is the head in sand, we don't need it, Hogan (insert generic great player) didn't do it, it's wrong, blah blah blah dark ages attitude.

If you wanna guess with your eyes, keep guessing.......you may be a good detective/high golf IQ and good luck to you.

For anyone else who is human or not Jack Nicklaus

Why not hit balls with instant feedback on what is happening at impact?

If YOU CAN hit balls on a radar and guess less, do that.......if you think they are the devil, don't.......

I'm NOT Jack Nicklaus, but if he was playing now, he would be practicing with one, so would Hogan.....they were that careful in their preparation and shot repertoire

Would they be better for it? To be fair they were AMAZING ball strikers and had control over their ball, how much more could they have improved?

They may not have hit it better, but they would have had less moments of wondering why a particular shot did what it did, and it wouldn't of taken Hogan so long to fix his hook. Maybe when things were a bit off they would have fixed it sooner

#justsayin
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
tongzilla said:
can't you extrapolate from ball flight?
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Kind of, you're still guessing though and it may take you 5-6 balls to figure out which guess was right. TM or FS will do it in 1 ball.

Also unless you have extensive experience on one of them how can you guess within a degree or two? Not happening.
 
ZAP

ZAP

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To me it is kind of like a GPS unit. Sure people found their way to places without one but it sure is easier with one.

I just remember being shocked at what I though was my "cut" swing was still like 3 degrees inside out. When they get more affordable I will own one.
 
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birly-shirly

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Jim - since you raised the issue of addiction/withdrawal, do you think there's any risk of creating a dependency culture?

Can you see any circumstances in which the "struggle" of hitting maybe 3 times as many balls might actually be a good thing?
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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tongzilla said:
can't you extrapolate from ball flight?
Click to expand...

Essentially................yes. BUT.........you have to really understand collision physics. There's no question in my mind that the average person couldn't pass a basic ball flight test. So they are not drawing the correct conclusions about their swing. First, you MUST know where the ball is impacting the clubface. I was surprised to discover the degree of clubface twisting even on relatively "solid" impacts, say, a dimple or two from center. This alters clubface angle and spin axis. But for sweet spot impacts, its fairly easy to determine RELATIVE path and face from ball flight. By relative, I mean determining whether path is left, right or center and whether face-to-path is open, closed, or sqaure.
 
hp12c

hp12c

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Oh if I could afford one of those machines I would get one so for now its just a guessing game, kinda like a mistery.
 
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cwdlaw223

New
All you need is video!!! :mad:

Why anyone would intentionally avoid these machines is beyond me. They are life saving and take away the guessing. What would be really neat is if Trackman could also add a feature that shows where the ball hit on the face! That would be cool. (I can do it with the impact tape but it skews ballflight (somewhat)).
 
mgranato

mgranato

New
cwdlaw223 said:
All you need is video!!! :mad:

Why anyone would intentionally avoid these machines is beyond me. They are life saving and take away the guessing. What would be really neat is if Trackman could also add a feature that shows where the ball hit on the face! That would be cool. (I can do it with the impact tape but it skews ballflight (somewhat)).
Click to expand...

Impact tape really skews the spin also. Use those "spray-on" indicators if you can.
 
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wulsy

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What I would like to know is how far you have to hit it towards the toe with an iron (say a blade) before a hook becomes unavoidable. Any takers?
 
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Lindsey Newman

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I was addicted to the camera for 10 years and I would not trade it for he world. I still use one for check ups. Trackman would be far superior. Anyone who says that would not like someone to watch their swing/give feedback is a fool and Trackman is one step better.
 
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DCgolf

New
I have both in my Trackman Performance Studio, and their new cameras are really good. Its still 2-D, and video struggles with showing how angle skews true path. Trackman tells me what impact TRULY is, and video shows me what the BODY did to cause the impact
 
Virtuoso

Virtuoso

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Todd Dugan said:
Essentially................yes. BUT.........you have to really understand collision physics. There's no question in my mind that the average person couldn't pass a basic ball flight test. So they are not drawing the correct conclusions about their swing. First, you MUST know where the ball is impacting the clubface. I was surprised to discover the degree of clubface twisting even on relatively "solid" impacts, say, a dimple or two from center. This alters clubface angle and spin axis. But for sweet spot impacts, its fairly easy to determine RELATIVE path and face from ball flight. By relative, I mean determining whether path is left, right or center and whether face-to-path is open, closed, or sqaure.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Todd, but the problem I run in to is that golfers aren't even seeing their entire ball flight.

When I work with a college player or a mini tour guy who is too far from the inside, their ball starts way right and hooks back. By the time they look up and see the flight, they tell me it was a 10 foot draw. Not even close, it was a 40 foot draw with a 6 iron. Essentially, horrible. It is some combination of when they actually see the flight and a kind of "hook-vision." Hook-vision meaning that when they hit it dead straight, they tell me it is fading!

So I think, like you say above, if you have a handle on the physics AND you can accurately tell me what your ball is really doing, then you can back calculate. But otherwise, you need a second pair of eyes looking down the target line.

PS: and, of course, even an educated instructor can't compete with the precision of a trackman.
 
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