You need a different swing within irons too, not just woods vs. irons

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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Maybe this is old news but is a bit of a revelation for me. We all know that the driver swing is very different than the iron swing due to the tee and hitting up on the ball and vice versa for irons.

However i also feel you need a slightly different iron swing for long irons and short irons. Maybe it's my own preference but what allows me to hit my long irons really well of late is a detriment to my short iron game (not enough lean, not down enough). For me to be a more complete iron player i have to purposely make setup and swing thoughts different for 7 iron and up versus 6 iron and down.

Anyone else?
 
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WoodbridgeGolf37

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I'm trying to learn how to hit the short irons better - so I'd be interested in hearing your set-up and swing thoughts.

I'm good with the long irons but miss too many with the shorties, which is one of the most frustrating things in golf.
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
WoodbridgeGolf37 said:
I'm trying to learn how to hit the short irons better - so I'd be interested in hearing your set-up and swing thoughts.

I'm good with the long irons but miss too many with the shorties, which is one of the most frustrating things in golf.
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Narrower stance
Feel to me of a much steeper shoulder turn, both back and down
Feel of less of "shallowing out."

Spent almost 2 hours at the range last night really trying to fix it and the above i believe is my way to fixing it for good in the future. Still obviously need to practice more but it's a great start.


Do you give you an idea, my confirmed 7 iron AOA via flightscope was anywhere between 0.X and 1.5 when average is 3-4*. That's how much i shallowed out my short iron swing :O.
 
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cwdlaw223

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What about the issue of the attack angle and the clubhead pattern near impact (ex. V vs. U)? I'm still blown away that I can pick a ball clean and have an attack angle of -5* for a 7 iron and smash the club into the ground and have -2* AoA. I still have difficulty with this concept and I suspect its part of the answer to the question in this thread. AoA can be the same, but how one delivers the AoA can be vastly different and I can't feel the difference. (There are times when I slam the club into the ground and get -8* AoA with the 7 iron).
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Ringer said:
Isn't delivery about impact or are you just going for a feel?
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No impact is a result of delivery; learned that a long time ago. You can't alter impact itself you have to alter what you are doing to create that impact. For me those are certain setup changes and feels that alter my swing plane, release point, pivot, etc.
 
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Ringer

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Jim Kobylinski said:
No impact is a result of delivery; learned that a long time ago. You can't alter impact itself you have to alter what you are doing to create that impact. For me those are certain setup changes and feels that alter my swing plane, release point, pivot, etc.
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I'm not sure where the miscommunication is happening. You and I are saying the same thing about delivery and impact. What I'm trying to get an answer about is what specifically you are trying to achieve differently from short irons to long irons. Why are you trying to change your delivery between the two?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
Let's say you want an optimized Driver shot and YOU are best at that swinging out and up.

PATTERN #1

You have a big headed 3-wood, and you hit it best trap cutting it.

PATTERN #2

Your hybrids are great, as long as you don't over torque the club in phase 2 of the downswing, and to hit it straight, you have to make a slight draw feeling swing out of a -2.4° aim.

PATTERN #3

You down have much clubhead speed, so getting your blade long irons in the air is iffy with s standard swing. High Cut works great.

You can also trap draw it to hit a low burner shot.

PATTERN #4 & #5

The trap draw iron swing works well throughout the rest of the irons for a hard right to left shot, but a zero shot requires a few changes.

PATTERN #6

You are pretty good at the limited rotation speed arm swing shot, not only with the shorter irons, but the distance wedges.

PATTERN #7
 
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Bigwill

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Man. How bout I learn one good swing first :)

I suppose this could help explain the evolution of the multiple ball position and same ball position/different stance concepts (as well as one more reason that this is such a challenging game)?

It should also be said that you don't have to do this (because somebody somewhere will undoubtedly present this as an absolute edict). You can have one swing throughout the bag. It just won't produce the exact same results (relative to the club you're using). But in order to optimize the results of 14 clubs with different lengths, lofts and head designs, it makes sense that something in your setup and swing will have to change from driver to your wedges.
 
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Ringer

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Seems to me the club fitting would affect a lot of what a player thinks they have to change from club to club.
 
lia41985

lia41985

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Brian made a video re: this
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8J2RDXmBxdA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Ringer said:
Why are you trying to change your delivery between the two?
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Mainly because the way i'm currently swinging it, it just isn't a good way to swing short irons but is a good way to hit long irons (for me). I try not to deloft my irons too much and have never been that great at swinging right so if you combine those 2 with a short iron they don't anywhere. Essentially my short irons are moon balls because i'm delivering too much loft.
 
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Ringer

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Jim Kobylinski said:
Mainly because the way i'm currently swinging it, it just isn't a good way to swing short irons but is a good way to hit long irons (for me). I try not to deloft my irons too much and have never been that great at swinging right so if you combine those 2 with a short iron they don't anywhere. Essentially my short irons are moon balls because i'm delivering too much loft.
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Gotcha! That makes sense if the delivery is varied beween clubs.

I remember this video of Brian's. It never really struck a chord with me because I've been more of a believer in fitting the equipment to the swing to help eliminate these problems. I want to consider it more though.

Should we really try to have 14 different swings, or is there something else we could do like change our setup for each club and let it help to produce the different swings naturally? Isn't that what Hogan was essentially doing as well as to help zero out his path?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Ringer said:
Gotcha! That makes sense if the delivery is varied beween clubs.

I remember this video of Brian's. It never really struck a chord with me because I've been more of a believer in fitting the equipment to the swing to help eliminate these problems. I want to consider it more though.

Should we really try to have 14 different swings, or is there something else we could do like change our setup for each club and let it help to produce the different swings naturally? Isn't that what Hogan was essentially doing as well as to help zero out his path?
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I could probably fix it with equipment and just bend my short irons very strong but than i have big gaps to my scoring wedges. I'm not trying to have 14 different swings lol. I'm talking about some minor setup changes and a more pronounced steeper backswing shoulder turn for irons 7 iron on up.

Not much to remember.
 
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conkanen

New
Jim Kobylinski said:
Mainly because the way i'm currently swinging it, it just isn't a good way to swing short irons but is a good way to hit long irons (for me). I try not to deloft my irons too much and have never been that great at swinging right so if you combine those 2 with a short iron they don't anywhere. Essentially my short irons are moon balls because i'm delivering too much loft.
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Good topic. Jim do you (or anyone else for that matter) feel like they need to release it more with the right hand the LONGER the club? With PW my swing feels like a turn and hold on with the left hand whereas Driver I feel like I need to slow down the pivot and release like crazy with the right hand. If I put my PW/short iron swing on my driver I am right of right. Make sense to anyone else?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
conkanen said:
Good topic. Jim do you (or anyone else for that matter) feel like they need to release it more with the right hand the LONGER the club? With PW my swing feels like a turn and hold on with the left hand whereas Driver I feel like I need to slow down the pivot and release like crazy with the right hand. If I put my PW/short iron swing on my driver I am right of right. Make sense to anyone else?
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Did you watch the linked video above that brian did on acceleration? that's exactly what he talks about (you're on the right path btw)
 
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