"you will see how video ruined golf for 30 years"

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Mike Thomas (sunmart)

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Michael Jacobs thinks video has ruined golf the last 30 years. A great topic, what do you think has ruined golf? PGA of America? Slow play? Too expensive? Golf course architecture? Golf on TV? Golf teachers? Internet? Societal? Video games? Scrambles? Junior golf programs? First Tee? Equipment? Access? Downfall of hometown country clubs? and of course many others. What say you? Whats wrong with golf and what would you change?
 
mgranato

mgranato

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Erik_K

Erik_K

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Golf, to me, is not ruined in any way. You touched on a variety of topics and many of them feed off each other and perhaps impact the game at many levels.

I started playing as a kid 20+ years ago before the advent of the camera, took about a decade off, and starting playing in a competitive league about 5 years ago. During that span there was not a 'method' or teaching aid (or philosophy) that I didn't stumble across or see debated on the internet. For all of the bashing that the concepts of 'lag' and maintain a 'flat left wrist' are subjected to, I remember playing with a bunch of 'TGM' guys at various golf schools over the years...and many of them could shoot well into the 60s or 70s.

What has been shown is that other ideas (or mathematical/physical relationships) are also important and there's more than one way to skin a cat.

I am still captivated by watching the Tour players play. I still look forward to teeing it up every Tuesday (during golf season) and playing in my little league. I love working on my game and dealing with various hi and low points that come with it.

This game and all that is associated with it, will never be perfect...from teaching, to course management, to golf commentary on TV, video games, golf fitness, you name it will be (and always will be) a source of never ending debate and discovery.

Erik
 
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wulsy

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Depends where you are in the world what detracted from the spirit and essence of the game, and to a certain degree how good you are and how good you want(ed) to become.

For me old w*****s at my junior club who thought juniors were a pest detracted from my enjoyment and ambitions. These were the same old t***s who ran our country into the ground and left their children and grandchildren with less opportunities than in other successful economies. Rant over.

Then there were ill-educated Golf Professionals with low IQs and high self esteems who tried to teach something they didn't understand. Whether it be tGm, Sq to Sq, keep it on plane or some other whacky system, at the end of the day none of it helped much. In fact it ruined many a decent player.

For me video was not the problem, rather it was the golf pros who didn't know how to use it. The same will be said of LMs and 3D systems in a few years time. Mark my words, I'm always right, just like MJ.
 
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OLIVER1

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sunmart said:
Michael Jacobs thinks video has ruined golf the last 30 years. A great topic, what do you think has ruined golf?
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I don't think Michael really meant that, at least as far as I can tell.
If a headache is softened with two aspirin, then four would work twice as well, it stands to reason. Eight of them would be a boon, sixteen would be instant relief, and thirty-two, well, no more headaches...ever

And that's how I look at teaching with video. A cursory glance would give you a reasonable overview; a more in-depth look would be great and poring over it till the cows come home would unlock all the secrets of the golf swing, surely? We now know that's not the case, and at some stage there is a massive point of diminishing returns associated with using video technology alone as internal forces slither under the radar and FPS shortcomings confuse the eye and confound the understanding. Add to that the official imprimatur of the most noted teachers of the day and you have blind alleys aplenty.

As Michael Finney pointed out, the information gathered now is staggering (enough to give you a headache that only 32 aspirin can knock out:)), to the point where he doubts that any human being can corral it into easily digestable teaching at this moment in time; thusly, video has it's place but we'd be wise to tiptoe through the tulips if it's the only means at our disposal...
 
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OLIVER1

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wulsy said:
Ach those boys from the Island have such a way with words. Nice one Ols.
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Thank you, Wulsy.

I'm rather saddened to hear that you Scottish lads are voting on independence from the Union. With that in mind, can I still count on you and birlyshirly as my brethren, or will you be treating me the way William Wallace treated my forebears?
 
drewyallop

drewyallop

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At the risk of interrupting the Scottish wank I say two things have held golf back ... teachers who know only how to get you to the next lesson and video/stills. Anyone who has watched Brian's "Line Drawing is for Dummies" knows that you can tell virtually nothing from videos/stills including a players' grip, how weak or strong, plane at the top, extension or folding of the arms, amount of slide, hip turn, shoulder turn and so on. Yes, you can see tendencies but a good teacher's eyes can see those tendencies and more. If true, where does that leave the dozens of golf "improvement" web sites that are founded on video/still analysis? My guess is under the proverbial bus.
 
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OLIVER1

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drewyallop said:
At the risk of interrupting the Scottish wank...
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There's no risk, but your concern is both noted and appreciated:rolleyes:

Drew, JUst so I can get up to speed, can you expand on the "teachers who know only how to get you to the next lesson" bit?

Thanks and Regards
 
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birly-shirly

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drewyallop said:
At the risk of interrupting the Scottish wank...
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Whew Drew - I can only recommend, if you haven't visited, NEVER to interrupt...

drewyallop said:
I say two things have held golf back ... teachers who know only how to get you to the next lesson and video/stills. Anyone who has watched Brian's "Line Drawing is for Dummies" knows that you can tell virtually nothing from videos/stills including a players' grip, how weak or strong, plane at the top, extension or folding of the arms, amount of slide, hip turn, shoulder turn and so on. Yes, you can see tendencies but a good teacher's eyes can see those tendencies and more. If true, where does that leave the dozens of golf "improvement" web sites that are founded on video/still analysis? My guess is under the proverbial bus.
Click to expand...

On a more serious note - you should visit, because we haven't fucked things up (yet). Most of the prime suspects cited in this thread never caught on... we're so much of a backwater that we're ahead of the game.
 
ZAP

ZAP

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I happen to think that society's increased need for instant gratification has taken a lot from the game. Let's face it...golf is a tough game and there is a lot to learn. For some people if they cannot get good at something very fast(see Angry Birds) then they lose interest.

From a golf instruction standpoint I do think video has done some damage and helped a little too. I will say that I look at any video I ever took in a much different way today than I would have even a year ago. When I do take any video I am much more conscious of where I place the camera and what I look for from that angle as well.
 
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OLIVER1

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@ZAP - That's a wonderful call about society's need for instant gratification. Can't get that learning golf
@birly-shirly - Will a box set of Billy Connolly DVD's do as a token?
 
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DCgolf

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Golf ruined? R u kidding? I've been playing for 50 years and it's never been healthier. In the 1960s I couldn't even get a game on a Saturday at my local muni unless we brought our own group. The worldwide depression and the greed of the people trying to exploit as many players as they could have caused some to leave or cuT back for $$$ reasons, yes. BUT golf ruined? A bit hyperbolic IMO...if there were NO teachers- just clubs, balls and a field to play on, there would still be golf. Ya can't f--- this game up. Believe me they've tried.
 
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ej20

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6 hour rounds will fck this game up.I would like to see golfers dressed like tennis players and sprinting between shots.It's meant to be a sport ain't it?
 
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