4 barrel hit/swing???

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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Well, it's nearing the end of the season here in Chicago and the grass ranges are closing up by sunday :(. So i usually take this last week i have on the turf and try to experiment and tinker a bit.

Well i have been fascinated with the 4 barrel swing/hit lately as i don't know a lot about it and just know that you are utilizing all 4 accumulators and whether you can actually "4 barrel swing" isn't a concern to me but what i was doing tonight was.

Usually with the driver i'm a 3 barrel swinger. I have i believe standard wrist action (where the left wrist turns gradually to the plane) and i take it to the end. Then i have a slight hip bump and i pull very hard with my left (some right) arms into into impact and i let centrifugal force throw the club out. Works very well. I feel strong sensations in pressure points #2, #3, and #4.

Well i said to myself, "what if around release point i give it some right arm. Let's see what that will do." Well let me tell you it did PLENTY. Higher and DEFINATELY longer. I'm here asking why and what exactly i was doing. I'll describe what i feel as happening below:

During the downstroke as i'm pulling with both arms into impact and loading my #3pp and spinning that flywheel, right as my hands get around hip high (in my mind's eye/feel) i feel like i "put on the brakes" and then i thrust with my arm heavily. As Tommy T would say, "hit out down the line!"

The results were much faster swing speeds, much noted higher pitch coming off the driver (which leads me to believe higher ball speeds) and longer distances. I also decided to try this with irons and although this type of motion would take some time to get used to, it has a benefit if i want to hit an iron high and/or with extra spin and/or distance. Not something i'd do all the time though.

So is there a TGM explanation for this? The thing is that i was feeling the strong sensations of ALL 4pp this time and not just the 3.

Thoughts? Questions?

Thanks!
 
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MizunoJoe

New
"As Tommy T would say, "hit out down the line!""

Note the word, "hit".

You're actually Switting - you are Swinging until release at which time you use right arm thrust to override CF. You are switching horses in mid-stream.
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

"As Tommy T would say, "hit out down the line!""

Note the word, "hit".

You're actually Switting - you are Swinging until release at which time you use right arm thrust to override CF. You are switching horses in mid-stream.
Click to expand...

hmm...ok.

But if i just allowed centrifugal force or my muscular force to power the swing, the swing speed was lower than when i "combined them."
 
B

BigBadDonkey

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I must be one of these then. I feel I use *everything* in the downswing. CF, right, left thrust, push, pull, brute force etc. ... the lot!
 
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cdog

New
Has there ever been test conducted on comparisions in speed between hitting and swinging?
We need an avg comparision, I'm sure men would have more of a chance to move the clubhead faster thrusting over swinging, women or older males may find CF moves the clubhead much faster than thrusting.
I would like to see a test done.
 
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hue

New
quote:Originally posted by cdog

Has there ever been test conducted on comparisions in speed between hitting and swinging?
We need an avg comparision, I'm sure men would have more of a chance to move the clubhead faster thrusting over swinging, women or older males may find CF moves the clubhead much faster than thrusting.
I would like to see a test done.
Click to expand...
I think the results would depend on the person.Chunky squat guys would generate more club head speed hitting and Davis Love body types swinging . I don't think the results would be conclusive.
 
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BigBadDonkey

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Only a theory and I guess we'll never know....
I always thought it would be the other way round ... a thin, supple guy (as long as he's strong) could push that club down a little quicker, and thrust the club through faster. A big, heavyweight.... more stable, lower centre of gravity could generate more CF. I don't think a chunky squat guy has the agility to move it fast enough through to become a hitter.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068
But if i just allowed centrifugal force or my muscular force to power the swing, the swing speed was lower than when i "combined them."
Click to expand...

They don't "combine". From release to separation, either CF straightens the right elbow or CF gets overridden by right tricep thrust. ANY amount of right tricep thrust, over and above that required for extensor action(if you use it), through the release interval will kill CF and completely replace it.
 
6

6bee1dee

New
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by jim_0068
But if i just allowed centrifugal force or my muscular force to power the swing, the swing speed was lower than when i "combined them."
Click to expand...

They don't "combine". From release to separation, either CF straightens the right elbow or CF gets overridden by right tricep thrust. ANY amount of right tricep thrust, over and above that required for extensor action(if you use it), through the release interval will kill CF and completely replace it.
Click to expand...

I agree with MJ on the CF being overridden but that is with a 'true swinger' that uses CF solely. But a Hands manipulated Swinger, one Homer said has more options and if I am right, read once that he preferred, could possible add a right arm drive. Now I say that becomes a Hit, but so what- we don’t stroke the golf ball with words.

For others that feel all four accumulators- I hope so. But barrel classifications are label by the dominate accumulator that powers the stroke. All four are there.
 
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MizunoJoe

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quote:Originally posted by 6bee1dee
But a Hands manipulated Swinger, one Homer said has more options and if I am right, read once that he preferred, could possible add a right arm drive.
Click to expand...

I think "hand manipulation" is in reference to hinge action. Right tricep thrust isn't a hand manipulation.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote: I agree with MJ on the CF being overridden but that is with a 'true swinger' that uses CF solely. But a Hands manipulated Swinger, one Homer said has more options and if I am right, read once that he preferred, could possible add a right arm drive. Now I say that becomes a Hit, but so what- we don’t stroke the golf ball with words.

For others that feel all four accumulators- I hope so. But barrel classifications are label by the dominate accumulator that powers the stroke. All four are there.
Click to expand...

Hand manipulation deals only with hinging --clubface control. A "manipulated hands" Swinger is still using Centrifugal Force to throw out and pull the clubshaft in line with the left arm.

Once you override CF with an active, muscular right arm thrust -- you've just become a Hitter.
 
rwh

rwh

New
quote:Originally posted by jim_0068

If i'm over riding centrifugal force, it doesn't mean i wasn't using it in a different part of the swing.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%, Jim. I was just referring to the release and impact intervals.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

New
quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by jim_0068
But if i just allowed centrifugal force or my muscular force to power the swing, the swing speed was lower than when i "combined them."
Click to expand...

They don't "combine". From release to separation, either CF straightens the right elbow or CF gets overridden by right tricep thrust. ANY amount of right tricep thrust, over and above that required for extensor action(if you use it), through the release interval will kill CF and completely replace it.
Click to expand...

I agree. From Release and through Impact is the important part.

But you were prolly still Swinging for the entire rest of the motion that came before that, right?

BTW Jim.....is there a startup Swivel?
 
6

6bee1dee

New
True that the right arm thrust isn't an hinge action but is needed with an angled hinge action. I never said that Hands Manipulation is only a right arm drive addition. In 2-K - ...”Swingers are totally dependent on their skill at manipulating Centrifugal Force while Hitters are not.”

MHS have more control as to when and how the wrists uncocks ie/ sweep or snap, Automatic or non-automatic release and what hinge action to use since a true swinger uses only a HH action.

CF is used to square the clubface, a HMS can square with some CF and some mechanical trigger control.

That said I agree with Jim that CF can be in another form, ie. Cranking the gyro but it takes a Hogan to hang on the CF to the milla second you can let it ride and began a hand thrust at impact.

For most over-ridding CF becomes a Hit stroke.
 
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MizunoJoe

New
".....is there a startup Swivel?"

If there is, then he is almost certainly adding a right forearm roll to the thrusting right tricep, in order to effect horizontal hinging. The proof is that he wasn't shanking the ball.

On the other hand, if he was Swinging with an angled hinge, then it's just a matter of thrusting at release.
 
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