60* Wedge - Distance Control - Impact Parameters/Club Design
- Thread starter cwdlaw223
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Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I don't think it has to do with club design but with the impact parameters; as you say. I don't have data to back it up but i do have experience and i think the issue becomes with the amount of loft on the club. There is so much loft and most people try to hit their wedges too hard that they are delivering a much wider range of loft than with clubs with less loft. Sometimes too much lean, sometimes too little lean, sometimes ball position etc.
magicmarker
New
Great question. I ditched my 60* in favor of learning to be more creative with my 56*. Haven't missed it yet...
Frans@France
New
was there also not an issue with the friction at angles above 55D making hitting the same dync loft with such a club even more important? I can't find that research paper for the moment.... 
mgranato
New
I carry 64, 58, 52, and P wedges. For me, the difficulty comes from trying to make "iron" swings with anything >58. I don't have distance issues when I make wedge swings with the lofted wedges, but when I'm at an odd distance and try to hit an iron shot with a high lofted club - it's a crap shoot for me. I think that boils down to my ability (or inability) to control the impact parameters of a 60+ degree club like I can with a lower lofted wedge or iron at higher relative speeds.
softconsult
New
Ok, here we go. Iron swings versus Wedge swings. I probably do have a wedge swing, but not sure I can describe the difference.
Would like to know more.
Would like to know more.
Virtuoso
New
The ball goes through two phases at impact. First there is a slip phase and then there is a roll phase. The sooner the roll phase begins in relation to the slip phase, the more spin you create.
The optimum slip/roll sequence for spin happens at "around" 58 degrees dynamic loft....all other things being equal. If you don't have much forward shaft lean, then you are flirting with that threshold where the spin drops off and the launch increases disproportionately. Obviously, if you're at the "top of the curve" like that, you may experience a wider range of trajectory (low spinners mixed with high knuckle balls), and thus distance control.
Then you ask me: "well gee wiz, I'll just lean the handle more forward!" Not so fast sparky, if you lean the handle forward, this is usually in tandem with steeper AOA, so you are making a more "oblique" strike on an already "oblique" loft. Thus, your hit location is more likely to vary up and down the face....which affects launch, spin and speed.
Now, the other reason would be that, from a playing standpoint, golfers are more likely to hit partial shots with the 60 degree than any other loft in the bag, and of course, based on that you are likely to see a larger dispersion in distance control.
And finally, the cg/sweetspot on a typical forged 60 degree is very high on the face and heelward. The type of lie you have has a huge influence on your ability to get the impact up into that sweetspot......which has a huge effect on launch, spin and speed. Off a tight lie, you are going to be hitting it "thin" to some extent.
The optimum slip/roll sequence for spin happens at "around" 58 degrees dynamic loft....all other things being equal. If you don't have much forward shaft lean, then you are flirting with that threshold where the spin drops off and the launch increases disproportionately. Obviously, if you're at the "top of the curve" like that, you may experience a wider range of trajectory (low spinners mixed with high knuckle balls), and thus distance control.
Then you ask me: "well gee wiz, I'll just lean the handle more forward!" Not so fast sparky, if you lean the handle forward, this is usually in tandem with steeper AOA, so you are making a more "oblique" strike on an already "oblique" loft. Thus, your hit location is more likely to vary up and down the face....which affects launch, spin and speed.
Now, the other reason would be that, from a playing standpoint, golfers are more likely to hit partial shots with the 60 degree than any other loft in the bag, and of course, based on that you are likely to see a larger dispersion in distance control.
And finally, the cg/sweetspot on a typical forged 60 degree is very high on the face and heelward. The type of lie you have has a huge influence on your ability to get the impact up into that sweetspot......which has a huge effect on launch, spin and speed. Off a tight lie, you are going to be hitting it "thin" to some extent.
I had this same thought yesterday. I'm almost always short with my 60* wedge. When I hit my 56* wedge I'm nowhere near as short even on shots that aren't that long (ex. 30-60 yards). Now if the green is rock hard I can see the benefit of the 60* wedge because of the increased landing angle to stop the ball. Right now the greens aren't hard where I play.
Thank you for the posts. I'm getting closer to a definitive answer.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
I'm not going to post links but i have read some interesting things about someones research into wedge ball flight and spin; do some googling if you want. Essentially the only advantage to say a lob wedge over a sand wedge is the higher descent angle; otherwise there isn't a giant increase in spin on partial/half shots when you compare a lob wedge versus a sand wedge.
I rarely use my lob wedge to hit "shots" anymore unless they are around the green; say 30 yards and less and need that extra descent angle to get the ball to stop.
Also should point out that the best way to stop a ball fast and consistently is via descent angle so keep that in mind with your wedge/shot selection around the green.
I rarely use my lob wedge to hit "shots" anymore unless they are around the green; say 30 yards and less and need that extra descent angle to get the ball to stop.
Also should point out that the best way to stop a ball fast and consistently is via descent angle so keep that in mind with your wedge/shot selection around the green.
Descent angle?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
The angle the ball descends from its peak flight. Essentially more loft will let the ball go more straight up and and down stopping the ball faster.
hp12c
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hp12c
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magicmarker
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If that's where the sweetspot is, no wonder it is so hard to fade a wedge but easy to make them hook. Thanks virtuoso.
That will save me some time trying to learn to hit shots that aren't really feasible.
That will save me some time trying to learn to hit shots that aren't really feasible.
Not an expert by any means, but this has been my direction. My short shots have less errors when I distance myself farther from the ball. This was a trouble untill I bent the lie angles to lay parralell to the ground. After trying many experiments, I bent the loft of the lob and sand down two degrees. The reason was that with less loft there can and must be more energy applied, eaisier for me than more loft and less energy. These changes have allowed me to start adding gamma, both pivot and hands. This also has allowed me to throw the bounce to the ground behind the ball with confidence. The one swing thought is, don't flip it, keep the left hand moving.
Ya get the dyn loft with an 9 iron in the high 50s and hey presto ya got a lob wedge! A lat of people could've saved themselves 180 bucks!
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