A great "thru the ball" position/Flat Right Foot (with a Brian Manzella Video Answer)

[Spike]

The heel may come of the ground anytime it likes as long as it is not in front of the toes at impact

I think Jim and Jeff made very valid points that compliment one another. That is, Jim... the heel should be pulled up by the pivot and Jeff.... it is the degree of pivot rotation that pulls up the heel up.

 

[puttmad]

..

The heel may come of the ground anytime it likes as long as it is not in front of the toes at impact

I think Jim and Jeff made very valid points that compliment one another. That is, Jim... the heel should be pulled up by the pivot and Jeff.... it is the degree of pivot rotation that pulls up the heel up.

Spike, I think you'll find that the degree of right heel lift is directly related to the amount of angular movement(towards the target) and bending of the right knee.
Don't forget the swing works from the ground up....
When the right knee bends, the right heel has to raise, thus extending the angle between toe and shin, which allows you to maintain your height.
If you bent the right knee without extending the right ankle, you would lose height at your hips......

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The heel may come of the ground anytime it likes as long as it is not in front of the toes at impact

I think Jim and Jeff made very valid points that compliment one another. That is, Jim... the heel should be pulled up by the pivot and Jeff.... it is the degree of pivot rotation that pulls up the heel up.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[davidmac00]

exactly!

Spike, I think you'll find that the degree of right heel lift is directly related to the amount of angular movement(towards the target) and bending of the right knee.
Don't forget the swing works from the ground up....
When the right knee bends, the left heel has to raise, thus extending the angle between toe and shin, which allows you to maintain your height.
If you bent the right knee without extending the right ankle, you would lose height at your hips......

Except, when the right knee bends the RIGHT heel has to raise,but i take that to be a printo as the post is very good.puttmad!
jim,
imho great ball strikers in history would include,Hogan,Knudson,Niclaus,Norman(greg,but huge case for Moe too),faldo(precision if not power),lyle,els and more recently mr woods.There are many others such as jones etc,but video evidence is sketchy at best and im way too young to remember him,but from ALL the(great) swings ive seen right heel lifts PRIOR to impact AND right heel leads toe.
if not,and this is only my opinion,left leg straightens,right hip lowers and tail bone is not leading pivot train.
My previous coments on reverse pivot was really relating to lack of weight on left foot in follow thro,absolutely nothing to do with backswing position(swaying too much to the right)more to do with rotating and not shifting.
david mccallum
Ps.jim if you look at the divots in the picture,its very easy to see which divot is fresh and where it is going, plus the others line up with it beautifully.

 

[lia41985]

On his bad shots he used too, it's lower now. In fact that was what Byron Nelson said was his main problem before he died.

No. This is what Moe Norman said.

It was the move Moe Norman commented on just days before his death in September: "Tiger Woods must be having a wonderful time searching for that one little thing he's doing wrong," Norman told Golf Digest. "I wonder when he'll notice it--the way his right heel lifts straight off the ground now instead of coming up and toward his left. His weight shift is terrible right now, that's all." --http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/gd200501tigerdiaz2.html

Working on your swing is the greatest joy in golf. Tiger Woods must be having a wonderful time searching for that one little thing he's doing wrong. I wonder when he'll notice it—the way his right heel lifts straight off the ground now instead of coming up and toward his left. His weight shift is terrible right now, that's all. Don't tell him. It'll ruin his fun.
--http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/gd200411myshot.html

 

[Chris Sturgess]

The thing about that is for a guy who hits it as far as Tiger there is not really a weight shift problem. His lower body had always shifted laterally plenty. In fact in Tiger's case the right heel raising straight up could be good thing because it means he's not overshifting Greg Norman style with the toe sliding. But I think the bottom line is that the right heel shouldn't move away from the target because that would be a spin out.

Jim, none of the tour players in Redgoat's pics have their right foot in the position in you student pic. If a tour player is making a super slow and smooth half assed swing then there right heel will be closer to the ground than normal but under normal full swing conditions it's well off the ground in almost all cases. And, even with the rare close to the ground people the right foot is still nothing like your guy because it's always rolled in, with the weight being all on the inside of the foot and some spikes showing on the outside. Your guy's foot isn't rolled in at all, which means his weight shift is lacking and he's going to his weak arm shots which are typical of hackers, no offense.

 

[Ringer]

I happen to like this one:

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Yeah, that guy actually has a weight shift. Is that you?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

The thing about that is for a guy who hits it as far as Tiger there is not really a weight shift problem. His lower body had always shifted laterally plenty. In fact in Tiger's case the right heel raising straight up could be good thing because it means he's not overshifting Greg Norman style with the toe sliding. But I think the bottom line is that the right heel shouldn't move away from the target because that would be a spin out.

Jim, none of the tour players in Redgoat's pics have their right foot in the position in you student pic. If a tour player is making a super slow and smooth half assed swing then there right heel will be closer to the ground than normal but under normal full swing conditions it's well off the ground in almost all cases. And, even with the rare close to the ground people the right foot is still nothing like your guy because it's always rolled in, with the weight being all on the inside of the foot and some spikes showing on the outside. Your guy's foot isn't rolled in at all, which means his weight shift is lacking and he's going to his weak arm shots which are typical of hackers, no offense.

Then you're not looking close enough because i looked last night and found plenty of them.

I'm done arguing about this.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is this thread for real?

There are guys arguing over whether having a flat right foot is bad for your swing?

Really?

If you can get the club to "act like a club" (down plane contact with the desired clubface at separation,etc.) and get your body to "act like a golfer" (torso tilts in the right location, kintetic chain snapped), I want ANYONE to tell me the ADVANTAGE of having the right foot OFF the ground at impact!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez.

 

[davidmac00]

There are guys arguing over whether having a flat right foot is bad for your swing?

Really?

If you can get the club to "act like a club" (down plane contact with the desired clubface at separation,etc.) and get your body to "act like a golfer" (torso tilts in the right location, kintetic chain snapped), I want ANYONE to tell me the ADVANTAGE of having the right foot OFF the ground at impact!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez.

Brian,
i cant vouch for the others posts,but i am not arguing for right heel off or on the ground!
MY point here was that the pupil in the picture was not in an IDEAL through impact position as stated IMHO!
take it or leave it,but thats how I feel about THAT picture.

 

[Brian Manzella]

.....

I don't think Jim was saying it was ideal either, just good for THIS guy.

Anyhoo, LOTS of TGMers over the years have TRIED to keep the right foot down. And lots say it was INSTRUMENTAL in making them a BETTER ball-striker.

 

[Bigwill]

I don't think Jim was saying it was ideal either, just good for THIS guy.

Anyhoo, LOTS of TGMers over the years have TRIED to keep the right foot down. And lots say it was INSTRUMENTAL in making them a BETTER ball-striker.

What's the rationale for this? Is there a mechanical benefit to keeping the foot down, or is it a preferential variation?

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

What's the rationale for this? Is there a mechanical benefit to keeping the foot down, or is it a preferential variation?

Most people who have bad moves through the impact area tend to have a 'bad move' because they LOSE THEIR TILT through impact.

Maybe they have it at the top of the swing, maybe they have it in the transition; but somewhere through transition the head moves foward too quickly...pulls the right foot up on its toes too soon and you hit down STEEPLY. By keeping the right foot down and still be able to HIT THE BALL you have to keep some kind of tilt and keep that right shoulder going downplane.

 

[Ringer]

I believe there is an advantage but only if the axis tilt is kept. It helps generate torque to either:

A) Pull the right shoulder
B) Push the left peck into the left arm

The axis tilt is a far more important component of a good golf swing than whether or not the right foot is off the ground.

 

[puttmad]

...

If you can get the club to "act like a club" (down plane contact with the desired clubface at separation,etc.) and get your body to "act like a golfer" (torso tilts in the right location, kintetic chain snapped), I want ANYONE to tell me the ADVANTAGE of having the right foot OFF the ground at impact!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Geez.

Unrestricted pivot and longevity of your golf game...

TBH I am amazed at what I am reading here...
Any attempt to deliberately keep the right heel down is going to put undue stress on body components, especially the lower back and hip joints...OK when you are young, but not, I think, good for longevity of your golf game.

 

[jbm47]

Jim,

I like the 40 - 60 mpg! I also like the back foot planted and let it get pulled thru to the end of the golf swing. I am working on this as well similar body styles. I like my beer too.....Non Alcoholic BEER (ha ha ha)



JBM47

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Then you're not looking close enough because i looked last night and found plenty of them.

I'm done arguing about this.

Wow, this is funny. Name them. So you make inaccurate statements and then say you are done aguing? You need to learn how to receive criticism and admit your wrong. You put forth what you think is a "great" postion in a forum, it wouldn't be much of a discussion if everybody just blindly agrees like sheep, especially considering you're wrong about it.

You read this right? "If a tour player is making a super slow and smooth half assed swing then there right heel will be closer to the ground than normal but under normal full swing conditions it's well off the ground in almost all cases. And, even with the rare close to the ground people the right foot is still nothing like your guy because it's always rolled in, with the weight being all on the inside of the foot and some spikes showing on the outside. Your guy's foot isn't rolled in at all, which means his weight shift is lacking and he's going to his weak arm shots which are typical of hackers, no offense."

How could you possibly disagree with that, find me more than one or two guys that have a flat right foot with the heel close to the ground. Tiger, Vijay, Els, Goosen, Hogan, Nicklaus, etc. all don't have anything close to that.

And puttmad is right, it's bad for your back.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

I don't think Jim was saying it was ideal either, just good for THIS guy.

Anyhoo, LOTS of TGMers over the years have TRIED to keep the right foot down. And lots say it was INSTRUMENTAL in making them a BETTER ball-striker.

Barely any tour players do it. Therefore it's certainly not a "great" position.

 

[Bigwill]

Most people who have bad moves through the impact area tend to have a 'bad move' because they LOSE THEIR TILT through impact.

Maybe they have it at the top of the swing, maybe they have it in the transition; but somewhere through transition the head moves foward too quickly...pulls the right foot up on its toes too soon and you hit down STEEPLY. By keeping the right foot down and still be able to HIT THE BALL you have to keep some kind of tilt and keep that right shoulder going downplane.

Thanks, Jim.