A tree, gently toppling over

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mandrin

mandrin

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The CompuSport CD, “MODEL GOLF – Swing Like A Pro”, by Dr Ralph Mann, a biomechanics expert, has detailed instruction about the transition move. The lateral hip slid should start well before the shoulders have fully turned in the backswing.

There is just one small problem. The associated animated computer model - “The Pro” - based on over 100 pro swings of both PGA and LPGA players, does not show this at all.

Instead if you will see first a motion of the upper body resembling that of a tree gently toppling towards the target before the lower body gets into the act.

I have seen this before in golf swings and viewing Brian’s lagpressuredrill.mov video I also noticed exactly this same motion. The very first move appears an upper body move gently topping over to the target.

It is an interesting example of discrepancy between what is being taught and what is actually taking place. ;)
 
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Perfect Impact

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If you can freeze frame and advance frame by frame at 30 fps, you will see in almost all great swings how the left hip falls, moves, sidles, slides TO THE LEFT BEFORE the hands and club reach the top for THEIR transition. Gravity, if allowed because weight is not placed ON the right hip and heel but leaning TOWARDS them, WILL start the c/m of the body leftwards to fall backwards toward the LEFT HEEL, and after that the arms and hands are pulled/pushed by the shoulders that themselves get moved onplane by the hip motion.

You can see it without the freeze frame advance, but it is MUCH easier to see and unmistakeably clear with that.
 
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hiroshiro

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I've always questioned the value of a model that is comprised of a composite of many. If one person is a Hitter and another a Swinger, what would the composite be?

Regarding the transition move, it's been a long while since I read the book, but I recall Mann emphasizing this move as what separates a pro from a hack. Interesting to note that the "Pro" does not exhibit this move.
 
mandrin

mandrin

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Perfect Impact said:
If you can freeze frame and advance frame by frame at 30 fps, you will see in almost all great swings how the left hip falls, moves, sidles, slides TO THE LEFT BEFORE the hands and club reach the top for THEIR transition. Gravity, if allowed because weight is not placed ON the right hip and heel but leaning TOWARDS them, WILL start the c/m of the body leftwards to fall backwards toward the LEFT HEEL, and after that the arms and hands are pulled/pushed by the shoulders that themselves get moved onplane by the hip motion.

You can see it without the freeze frame advance, but it is MUCH easier to see and unmistakeably clear with that.
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PerfectImpact,

Have a look at the swing of Brian in his lagpressuredrill.mov video. I have seen this type of gentle toppling over move before in golf swings.

It is different from the gravity fall onto the left side, which can occur when keeping the forward angle in the trail leg.

In the first there is a fairly large move of the upper body towards the target, in the latter it is primarily a reactive lower body motion.
 
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Perfect Impact

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The video stalls and won't download to my puter.

I am an advocate of that leftward falling and the hip slide. Perhaps it is different than what BM advocates.

Since I can't see the vid I can't really speak to it more, except to say that my description does say what I do feel is the most powerful use of the hips and legs.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
A couple of famous qoutes....

"When science gets to the end of all of their 'rainbow,' they will discover that Religion will be there waiting."

Or something like that.

Here's another one:

"When all the golf science crowd and the book literalist get to the end of all of their 'discoveries,' they will discover that The ITALLIAN STALLION will be there waiting."

;)

Mandrin, have you ever read my Pivot articles or watched "Do It Right."

Like I said....I'll there waiting!
 
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shootin4par

New
mandrin said:
The CompuSport CD, “MODEL GOLF – Swing Like A Pro”, by Dr Ralph Mann, a biomechanics expert, has detailed instruction about the transition move. The lateral hip slid should start well before the shoulders have fully turned in the backswing.
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in the model are the shoulders still turning WHILE they are falling like a tree. Does the tree topping over start to do this BEFORE the shoulders are fully turned? Or do the shoulders stop moving back, tree tops over, then hips slide?
 
mandrin

mandrin

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Brian Manzella said:
"When science gets to the end of all of their 'rainbow,' they will discover that Religion will be there waiting."

Or something like that.

Here's another one:

"When all the golf science crowd and the book literalist get to the end of all of their 'discoveries,' they will discover that The ITALLIAN STALLION will be there waiting."

;)

Mandrin, have you ever read my Pivot articles or watched "Do It Right."

Like I said....I'll there waiting!
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Brian, why react with quote’s. I thought you this left this approach to Yoda. ;)

There is no critique, only an observation. Why not simply comment on your particular swing in the lagpressuredrill.mov video. It is actually quite interesting.
 
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drulf

New
A sceptical golfer falls gently toward the target

Two classic proponents for starting the downswing with an upper body lean towards the target:

The Sceptical Golfer, by James S Rothenberg (book)

Homero Blancas in Golf Channel Academy Live 2002 ("Lean and Trap")
 
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Perfect Impact

New
The center of gravity. In a golf swing, that's in the midsection. No one "tips" to the left, if that is what is being discussed. As I said, I could not download the video:
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Why?

MANDRIN: Why did I answer with a quote?

Because your post DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE that I teach the very thing you were talking about as if you invented to discovered it.

It is a valid issue, you are correct, but, show the STALLION some props.

BIRDIE: Why do I call myself "The Iallian Stallion"?

Because I have taught NON-STOP for 25 years and HAVE ALWAYS had to FIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to get as good as I am, and accomplish what I have, and most importantly to LEARN ALL THAT I HAVE about TGM, and what just about everyone else teaches, and figure out what works—what don't—and why.

Then someone comes along and calls himself a fictional ALL KNOWING movie character.

So I—in my own little way—stuck a needle in him by calling myself "The Italian Staiion."

At least my (self) title fits.
 
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mandrin

mandrin

New
Brian Manzella said:
MANDRIN: Why did I answer with a quote?

Because your post DID NOT ACKNOWLEDGE that I teach the very thing you were talking about as if you invented to discovered it.

It is a valid issue, you are correct, but, show the STALLION some props.

BIRDIE: Why do I call myself "The Iallian Stallion"?

Because I have taught NON-STOP for 25 years and HAVE ALWAYS had to FIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to get as good as I am, and accomplish what I have, and most importantly to LEARN ALL THAT I HAVE about TGM, and what just about everyone else teaches, and figure out what works—what don't—and why.

Then someone comes along and calls himself a fictional ALL KNOWING movie character.

So I—in my own little way—stuck a needle in him by calling myself "The Italian Staiion."

At least my (self) title fits.
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Brian,

I do realize that you have become a very occupied golf business man and don’t have much time to post/debate on your forum. ;) It is probably the reason that you missed the point of my post.

What you teach in ‘Perfect Pivot (part 2: The downswing)’ - gravity fall, sit down, axis tilt - is quite different from what you are showing yourself doing in the lagpressuredrill video.

With your experience you must have noticed this in various golf swings over the years - this gentle toppling over of the upper body as an transition move. What do you think of it, even if you don’t really teach it?
 
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shootin4par

New
Brian Manzella said:
BIRDIE: Why do I call myself "The Iallian Stallion"?

Because I have taught NON-STOP for 25 years and HAVE ALWAYS had to FIGHT EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to get as good as I am, and accomplish what I have, and most importantly to LEARN ALL THAT I HAVE about TGM, and what just about everyone else teaches, and figure out what works—what don't—and why.

Then someone comes along and calls himself a fictional ALL KNOWING movie character.

So I—in my own little way—stuck a needle in him by calling myself "The Italian Staiion."

At least my (self) title fits.
Click to expand...
if a man throws a punch at you and you throw one back then he throws againg and you again etc..........

if a man throws a punch, then you step out of the way and walk away, is it possible the fight may end?
 
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rundmc

Banned
mandrin said:
Brian,

you must have noticed this in various golf swings over the years - this gentle toppling over of the upper body as an transition move. What do you think of it, even if you don’t really teach it?
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Mandrin . . . good to see you out here . . . I missed you man.

Who would be a "posterboy" for this toppling over move you describe?

Does Eldrick make this move? His head seems to move forward and down at transition?
 
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