Austin Talk

[rosser]

Alrighty, I hear all the talk of Hogan, Homer etc. aka the Flat left wrist. One of the best and maybe the best ball striker of the ball was Michael Hoke Austin. If any of you guru's know anything of truth of this golf genius, could you tell me if he had a flat left wrist through the ball and all the way to the finish?

Did Austin have a bent right wrist through the ball or did it not go from bent to a straight position past impact? IMOP Austin did have a flat left wrist and a bend right wrist at impact.

Why was it not important for Austin to keep the left flat and the right bent through the ball ? Austin, the longest and one of the most accurate ever. What did this man know that makes TGMers fail to give credit. Is it just because they really don't know how Mike Austin really applied power and control to the golf ball?

I hear flip and power leak, yet if you say the left wrist has to be flat and the right wrist bent through the ball and all the way to the finish and the fact that Austin did not have this so said positions past the ball, how could he be the longest and most accurate man that ever swung a golf club?

If Austin figured this out, why would anyone really worry about keeping the left wrist flat and right wrist bent passed impact if it doesn't make the ball any straighter or longer.

Not looking to start anything, just looking to see what any one really knows about the Man that cracked the code of the golf swing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

No, no, no.

I have NEVER

EVER

EVER

EVER

said the left wrist HAS TO be flat all the way to the finish.

Not once.

As a matter of fact, IMO, it HAS TO bend in a PURE SWING.

I just don't think many people CAN PURE SWING or should.

 

[rosser]

Austin talk

Yes, Only the way it comes out, most are thinking you keep the left wrist flat and right wrist bent through out the swing. I never ever would teach that to anyone that wants to hit a long way straight. Matter of fact you never need to think of keeping the right wrist bent from the top down to the ball. In my swing from the top I want to release the bent feeling with my throw from the get go. If you know how to throw, (pivot) it will never get there until impact. So when most think of releasing the right wrist bend from the top, it is not flipping, nor is there power leak, when the body is in motion. Its one of the most powerful ways to swing a golf club. Austin has had it right from the beginning, with out confusion.

 

[birdie_man]

I don't know much about this Austin guy...

How good was he really?

...

I know he hit a really long drive on a windy day.....that's all I know.

 

[mrodock]

HAHA, same here birdie_man. If you didn't strike the ball like a God in US Open's I think it's flat out silly to put someone in Hogan's league. That's just me though. If a person's swing can not only hold up under that kind of pressure, but produce at an extraordinary level, then I think a person can be mentioned with Hogan. Guys like Nelson and Trevino immediately come to mind.

Matt

 

[Mike O]

Right wrist

Since Brian took the left wrist - I'll take the right wrist.

Rosser, you bring up a good point in that if someone was thinking that the right wrist needed to be bent after impact and through to the finish- they'd probably have a very un-golf like motion- certainly not a common or necessary motion to make.

As far as "throwing from the top- "release the bent feeling with a throw from the top" - well that's a feel as you say and not necessarily what's happening- however, teaching any feel as a principle or never changing fact - just doesn't work based on the nature of it. So I'd guess that the feel concepts of "throwing from the top" and it's distant cousin "holding/keeping the right wrist bent going down" are both problem children in regards to one using them as your procedure- obviously both can be used as needed in the process of changing your movement- they just need to be watched closely! because those kids like to cause problems!

So we've got:
What you're thinking of doing.
What you're feeling.
What is actually happening.
Important areas of golf instruction for sure.

 

[rosser]

Brian and Mike O

Appreciate your responds. As for others that like to talk cheap of MA, Thanks also, only I have to differ with you. MA was every bit as good as Hogan. Just like many don't think Tiger is best, it will be the choice you make based on what you really feel you know. Unless you have known the parties, its only a opinion at best.

Now back to flat left wrist and bent right wrist. Having the feeling of maintaining the right wrist bend through out the swing is being tauaght by many, one comes to mind, has been Mark Evershed. Mark loves to tell everyone to drop, and that the right wrist never flattens out. I have had many come back to me so I could help them find the fairways again. Too much holding this bent feeling going around and the flat left wrist thought after the ball has been struck is killing many also. Hold ,hold and hold some more. Weak block fades, pulls and hookers come to mind.

If from the correct pivot and no cocking of the right wrist, only the right elbow bends up to a 90 degree at the top of the backswing position, the left wrist is flat and the right is bent. Throwing is immediately, no pause, not thinking of dropping. I shift and throw on the plane, back to the ball towards right field. The right wrist moves in one direction from the bend position to the straight position past impact. The right elbow is striaghtening . From the top what I see most, is golfers tipping the shaft, which causes a hoist of problems.

The game is of feels, releasing the bent right wrist, with the right elbow working to a straight position back on plane. From the correct shift, gives way to one of the most powerful and accurate collisions of the ball one could ever wish for in the golf swing.

Speed and game.

Swing well my friends

R

 

[Martee]

...............

So we've got:

What you're thinking of doing.
What you're feeling.
What is actually happening.

Important areas of golf instruction for sure.

IMO there are 12 words arranged better that I have ever seen that probably sums up golf instruction, the differences, the likeness, etc.

Excellent..

 

[squish]

Sirs

Mike Austin Method?

The goal Is to have have a flat or square left wrist through impact.
But for the shortest amount of time.

You must release, accelerate the Club Head.

Squish

 

[Tom Bartlett]

 

[Perfect Impact]

Since the clubhead is moving very rapidly in the same manner as the bottom of a pendulum swinging -- the left hand moving from an arched wrist prior to impact, to where it is flat at separation to where it is bent back after impact, it is not a matter of holding anything, but of a freeze frame photo revealing that at the microsecond OF the instant of separation, there IS no holding. The strobe photo REVEALS that micro-instant position of the hands and club during a continuous movement.

As Squish says, it is during a release - during a "letting it happen" action caused by momentum which is itself caused by forces applied on the fulcrum by the hands moved by the right arm and shoulders which are moved by the pivot which is moved by the legs and the transfer of weight of the center of mass of the body to the left femur.

Note in Mike's pivot how FAR his left hip moves to his left relative to his swing center (under his chin): if anyone thinks he got his 515 yards from a 35 MPH helping wind on a level course with 440 yards or so of IN THE AIR CARRY, and not from this pivot, he doesn't live in this world.

 

[nmgolfer]

the toss

I was watching one of those big college women on TV this past weekend doing the hammer toss track and field event and I thought to myself: "YES... thats it". Thats the "toss". I don't think Austin ever thought or worried much about flat left wrists or retaining angles or any of those messy details that happen (or don't). I think he threw that hammer (clubhead) as far and as fast as he possibly could and it all stems from his first lesson as a wee tot at the age of six when his teacher ordered him to bury the clubhead of a mashie niblick into a bank of mud but warned him not to get any (mud) on his shirtsleeve or else (he would kick his butt). To do that young Mike Austin had to quickly learn to "toss" the clubhead and he sure as heck wasn't worried about having a flat left wrist or lag. Its a KISS swing with kinesiology compatible body moves. As Austin (Powers) would say: YAH BABY... Its "lever powered"!

 

[squish]

Beautiful! Sir Tom

Study Mikes left arm,
Frames 7,8,9,10 , And the in place rotation of the entire left arm from the left shoulder Ball and socket.

#7 Left arm Pronated
#8 Left arm at impact nuteral or square
#9-10 Left arm Supinated

At the same time the right arm is extending through impact,following the momentum of the Club Head, Pivoting at the wrists, cupping the left wrist.

An independant 180* swing from the Wrists and Hands.
Hogans rumored Swing within a Swing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The Baby and the Bath Water.

the way it comes out, most are thinking you keep the left wrist flat and right wrist bent through out the swing.

The REASON I advocate it for so many golfers, rosser, is that THEY NEED IT!

And, btw, they get much better doing it.

I never ever would teach that to anyone that wants to hit a long way straight.

David Toms, Mike Finney, Tom Bartlett, and others, have ALL been taught to TRY to do this through impact, and they are ALL very impressive drivers of the ball.

Matter of fact you never need to think of keeping the right wrist bent from the top down to the ball. In my swing from the top I want to release the bent feeling with my throw from the get go. If you know how to throw, (pivot) it will never get there until impact.

This sounds like a lot of teachers that I can out teach. "Just THROW IT and pivot and you'll win the Open.

Nope.

While some golfers with LAG, can throw the club from the top, and some who can time the flip can get away with it, this is REALLY BAD ADVICE for 99% of golfers.

So when most think of releasing the right wrist bend from the top, it is not flipping, nor is there power leak, when the body is in motion. Its one of the most powerful ways to swing a golf club. Austin has had it right from the beginning, with out confusion.

I would have had no problem out teaching this guy, or any teacher who teaches this to everyone.

 

[nmgolfer]

Just a Gripe here Brian....

Brian Manzella is a PGA Teaching Professional and Authorized Doctor of Golf Stroke Engineering (Instructor) of The Golfing Machine who teaches in New Orleans, Louisiana and Louisville, Kentucky.ne.

I don't know if you are or if you are not but... PLEASE don't call yourself an Engineer unless you've studied an completed an Engineering curriculum. I get so tired of seeing drafters, garbage men and now even golf instructors calling themselves engineers. Please have a modicum of respect for the profession and those who worked hard and made it through an engineering curriculum. Medical doctors and Lawyers have it right... they've made it illegal to call ones self (i.e. practice) an MD or an Attorney unless they've established their qualifications. The engineering profession should do the same IMNSHOP.

***END OF RANT***

 

[TexasAg]

Just a Gripe here Brian....



I don't know if you are or if you are not but... PLEASE don't call yourself an Engineer unless you've studied an completed an Engineering curriculum. I get so tired of seeing drafters, garbage men and now even golf instructors calling themselves engineers. Please have a modicum of respect for the profession and those who worked hard and made it through an engineering curriculum. Medical doctors and Lawyers have it right... they've made it illegal to call ones self (i.e. practice) an MD or an Attorney unless they've established their qualifications. The engineering profession should do the same IMNSHOP.

***END OF RANT***

http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/louisiana.htm

 

[nmgolfer]

http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/louisiana.htm

Well then, Texas Ag (I'm a California Ag)... My gripe is with The Golfing Machine Incorporated isn't it. Never the less I wish Brian would reconsider his decision to use that title. At a time when the United States is falling farther and farther behind other developed nations in part because industry is unable to recruit an adequate supply of qualified Engineering students, it does not do anyone any good to diminsh the respect for the profession by constantly turning a blind eye to every tom dick and harry who comes along and wants to pass themselves off as an Engineer. Its not Brian's "fault" I blame the profession of which I am a member. In otherwords... it really pisses me off. At the risk of being labeled a thread jacker....Thats all I will say on the matter.

 

[EdZ]

Agreed - that is an outstanding impact and follow through. Excellent hands to chest triangle and force sent to both arms straight

 

[robertkhill]

From Webster's dictionary-with particular attention to 3c which I think describes Brian pretty accurately.


Main Entry: 1en·gi·neer
Pronunciation: "en-j&-'nir
Function: noun
Etymology: alter. of earlier enginer, from Middle English, alteration of enginour, from Middle French engigneur, from Old French engignier to contrive, from engin
1 : a member of a military group devoted to engineering work
2 obsolete : a crafty schemer : PLOTTER
3 a : a designer or builder of engines b : a person who is trained in or follows as a profession a branch of engineering c : A PERSON WHO CARRIES THROUGH AN ENTERPRISE BY SKILLFULL OR ARTFUL CONTRIVANCE 4 : a person who runs or supervises an engine or an apparatus

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Just a Gripe here Brian....



I don't know if you are or if you are not but... PLEASE don't call yourself an Engineer unless you've studied an completed an Engineering curriculum. I get so tired of seeing drafters, garbage men and now even golf instructors calling themselves engineers. Please have a modicum of respect for the profession and those who worked hard and made it through an engineering curriculum. Medical doctors and Lawyers have it right... they've made it illegal to call ones self (i.e. practice) an MD or an Attorney unless they've established their qualifications. The engineering profession should do the same IMNSHOP.

***END OF RANT***

My Nephew just graduated from Tulane with honors - Mechanical Engineer. His Dad, my brother graduated top of his class from Tulane - Electrical Engineer. My other brother with honors from Tulane and then Masters from Ohio State - Mechanical Engineer. My oldest brother graduated top of his class from Tulane - Civil Engineering then Masters at Berkley - Structural Engineering. His Wife graduated from Berkley with honors - Chemical Engineering. My Dad graduated from Tulane with honors - Electrical Engineering. His Dad and Grandfather were just Doctors and Great Grandfather a KY Senator. I studied Mechanical Engineering for two years, and just like my family saw how easy it was, so I left college to try something REALLY challenging, Golf. Now I'm a Bachelor of Golf Stroke Engineering (should be a Doctor), but I'm not bitter. LOL