Austin Talk

[vanquish]

I am a bit biased on the subject, of course, but I do think the flammer is worth having if you understand what it is. It, like most training aids, is designed to help you ingrain good habits. It is not a crutch, just a guide. With all that being said...I don't own one. Take that as you will. [/QUOTE]

Shady,

What habit is the flammer trying to ingrain?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Here we go again...."Step right up, hurry, hurry, before the show begins..."

Greetings to everyone over here in the Manzella camp!

Eh, this place has many who are not in my 'camp.'

There are some who just come on this site to 'piggyback' on the action it receives toward their own 'ends.'

I would like to start out by apologizing to Brian for the invasion of MAers. The only thing we usually agree on is that Mike was a genious.

He was a really smart guy by all accounts, and a realy good teacher.

But, just like our friend Peter Croker, he had his "Major Magazine Articles" and his day in the sun.

This place is (so far) the first hour or two of 'my day in the sun.'

When I get MY "Major Magazine Articles" I'll need an army of teachers to give the lessons.

Applications will be available on this site.

There are those that know what they are talking about, those that desperately want to learn and those who think they know what they are talking about...guess which ones are the most dangerous.

The ones who aren't stealing as much good free info from me as possible.

They are dangerous because they are dumb as rocks.

 

[birdie_man]

I never undestood why you would keep your right wrist bent throughout the swing and into the finish on a full shot. When i tried it always lost alot of distance. Releasing that right wrist from 90 degress bent to whatever degree you want through impact adds alot of power. Look back at the pics of mike austin how his right arm has straightened and his right wrist is still bent before impact and then he releases it thorugh the ball for that extra power. BTW that is exactly how mac ogrady teaches to release the club in that sequence. I repeat that release of the right wrist after the right arm has started straightening adds alot of power. obviously though you would want to get your hands to the proper location before release so you can hit down through the ball the proper amount for the trajectory needed for the specific shot.

Bantamben man,

Doesn't have to be Bent throught the entire stroke.

Not an Imparative by any means man....

-Paul

 

[dale47]

Just a Gripe here Brian....



I don't know if you are or if you are not but... PLEASE don't call yourself an Engineer unless you've studied an completed an Engineering curriculum. I get so tired of seeing drafters, garbage men and now even golf instructors calling themselves engineers. Please have a modicum of respect for the profession and those who worked hard and made it through an engineering curriculum. Medical doctors and Lawyers have it right... they've made it illegal to call ones self (i.e. practice) an MD or an Attorney unless they've established their qualifications. The engineering profession should do the same IMNSHOP.

***END OF RANT***

WHAT A DICK !!!
*** end of rant ***

 

[rosser]

Austin talks

Brian

Now that a bunch of Austin wantabe's are lurking and some posting, I think its time to explain why your teaching would be the best road to travel, verse taking what most will never be able to do, apply Mikes style.

Lets be frank here, to learn how Austin applied power takes a great deal of talent, and time. How you teach takes time, only over 90 percent have excellent chance at learning how to play good golf so much faster.

I was fortunate to have learn from him, when he was still serious and able to teach. Mike didn't tell all to most, if he thought you where not totally serious about what you came for, he would elude you. Many walked intimidated by this gentle giant. He had his issues with the PGA, and rightly so. What a wonderful striker of the ball. Putt you say? Yes you could of helped him there. LOL Maybe. He did have a twitch in his getalong, which gave him fits.

Like I said in the beginning I am not here to start anything, just to give this man some type, as he has brought much game to me.

My friend your magazine days are a coming, just stay the path, and be more what I believe you can. Talk more softly.

 

[birdie_man]

This place is (so far) the first hour or two of 'my day in the sun.'

When I get MY "Major Magazine Articles" I'll need an army of teachers to give the lessons.

Applications will be available on this site.

Ehehehe.

 

[vjcapron]

What a loser

Just a Gripe here Brian....



I don't know if you are or if you are not but... PLEASE don't call yourself an Engineer unless you've studied an completed an Engineering curriculum. I get so tired of seeing drafters, garbage men and now even golf instructors calling themselves engineers. Please have a modicum of respect for the profession and those who worked hard and made it through an engineering curriculum. Medical doctors and Lawyers have it right... they've made it illegal to call ones self (i.e. practice) an MD or an Attorney unless they've established their qualifications. The engineering profession should do the same IMNSHOP.

***END OF RANT***

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasAg
http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/louisiana.htm

Well then, Texas Ag (I'm a California Ag)... My gripe is with The Golfing Machine Incorporated isn't it. Never the less I wish Brian would reconsider his decision to use that title. At a time when the United States is falling farther and farther behind other developed nations in part because industry is unable to recruit an adequate supply of qualified Engineering students, it does not do anyone any good to diminsh the respect for the profession by constantly turning a blind eye to every tom dick and harry who comes along and wants to pass themselves off as an Engineer. Its not Brian's "fault" I blame the profession of which I am a member. In otherwords... it really pisses me off. At the risk of being labeled a thread jacker....Thats all I will say on the matter.

Give me a break! One would think an engineer should know that "Nevertheless" is one word and should be followed by a comma. For example...

I understand that you are a high-and-mighty engineer. Nevertheless, you are still a dork.

 

[Shadyfap]

\
He was a really smart guy by all accounts, and a realy good teacher.

But, just like our friend Peter Croker, he had his "Major Magazine Articles" and his day in the sun.

This place is (so far) the first hour or two of 'my day in the sun.'

When I get MY "Major Magazine Articles" I'll need an army of teachers to give the lessons.

Applications will be available on this site.

Ah, I see. In that case...enjoy your time in the sun, Brian.

 

[rundmc]

I am an operator of a TRAIN!!!! I think both of you freakin' ENGINEERS give my profession a bad name!!!! Golf Stroke Engineer . . . give me a break!!! Let's see you get behind the wheel of a locomotive beotch!!!! And you other pocket protector types . . . with your math and your slide rules . . . and your cd's . . . well y'all can SEE DEEEEEEZ NUTZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!

Let's see you ponkazzzes get up behind the wheel of a steam engine after blazin' up half a bag . . .

And as far as falling behind other Nations don't make me get up on the track and come over there and smack you in the mouth with 40 inches of squareness to the target. Stop poor mouthing the country dork boy. Does mommy know you're on the computer again?

The train may just run at your house . . . . Woooooooooooo!!!! Woooooooooo!!!! bizaaaaaach!!!!!!

 

[cdog]

Well, this had a chance of being a good thread.
I don't care what title a man gives himself as long as he's good at what he does.

In all my study of Mike's instruction, i never remember him saying to straighten the rear wrist, he does say not to hinder or hold, but not to purposely flip the wrist. There is a difference in flipping on purpose, and letting the wrist be moved in a certain way by the weight and physics of the club.

Now instead of saying you should or shouldnt unbend the rear wrist, THINK about why an instructor would tell someone NOT to unbend or flip the rear wrist.
It's not to hard to figure out, just watch most people on the course.

Look at Mike's impact alignments, texbook excellent alignments, flt/bent alignments. Look at his sitdown move, textbook. What ever Mike taught, it put him in momentary positions caught on film that TGM teaches, yes or no?

As far as throwing from the top, is it feel , or is it something muscular that Mike did, look at his pics, his angles are excellent, so looking at his pics, or watching his swing he surely isnt changing or losing any angles at the top.

How bout this, all the experts and especially the Austin experts instead of telling everybody this or that is bad instruction, break down the mechanics of Austin and teach the rest of us. What did Mike teach over anyone else that would make him have it better over anyone else? There are people on this forum that have recieved lessons from Mike, Doug even posted pics.

Lets start with Mikes famous pivot, break it down and tell us why its so good, and also tell us why its different, and how its different compared to what it's taught today.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Dog saves day!

Well, I LOVE the sequence Tom posted!

Sure doesn't look like "Head in the dead middle of the feet to me."

!

 

[Perfect Impact]

cdog: Let's do address Mike's pivot.

He taught to move the hips SIDEWAYS under a steady swing circle center (SCC) located at bone known as C-7 at the base of the back of the neck. Imagine a frame like a coat hanger suspended on a nail at the apex, under which is a "spine" and at the lower end of THAT, a horizontal piece representing the hips.

Well, when the spine rotates VERTICALLY around the SCC, it causes the shoulders to move VERTICALLY. But realize that the hips are what move the shoulders in this manner, and THEY are moved by the legs--our strongest muscles.

When sideways motion runs its course, a backswing or downswing is then continued with horizontal rotation (clockwise in the backswing, CCW in the downswing) - hence the pivot is called "compound."

When the downswing is initiated with a VERTICAL motion of the shoulders with this kind of pivot by the relevant leg and hip motion, it moves the ARMS AND SHOULDERS ON PLANE in a very powerful way. There is no conflict between torso rotating CCW and a club and arms and hands moving much more vertically! They synchronize in their application of on-plane force.

So the drag-race car, or the speedboat, gets MASSIVE FORCE APPLIED AT THE OUTSET TO CREATE MAXIMUM SPEED IN THE ARMS, HENCE WHERE THE CLUB IS ATTACHED TO THE GOLFER IN HIS HANDS, by a rapid powerful LEG action, NOT by "torso rotation" relying on weak muscular construction in the mid-body of homo sapiens --where there really isn't any strength to speak of. Imagine standing beside a tree and trying to push it sideways with the palm of your right hand -- that is the difference between legs and gravity in the center of mass of your body driving shoulders ON PLANE and "trying" to spin fast (and likely to be influenced to swing roundhouse) to make the arms and hands to move faster.

What is the next point you'd like clarified?

Good to ask: incidentally, commenting on how the conventional instruction goes in this country WITH rotation power, not leg power as MA used it, John Jacobs of the UK--known for brilliant and incisive instruction for decades, used the pejorative "the American swing". Clearly HE saw the difference. Once seen and tried, I find it incomprehensible that everyone doesn't "get it" immediately.

 

[mb6606]

Would Montgomerie's swing characterize the MA method?
http://beauproductions.com/golfswingsws/montgomerie/index1.html

 

[Martee]

Well, I LOVE the sequence Tom posted!

Sure doesn't look like "Head in the dead middle of the feet to me."

!

No and not the neck, it appears he has until follow through managed to keep his sternum, about a hands width below the neck.

How come you are so hung up on the 'Head dead middle feet'? Realize you don't subscribe to this concept, but it is beginning to appear that this issue has really gotten to you, almost as much as all those Magazine Golf Teachers.

 

[Perfect Impact]

Monty's hip motion and consequent shoulder and arm motions are quite true to MA. Not much else to worry about, as everything else kinda follows. "best European player..." moniker is related to that, IMO.

 

[nmgolfer]

I was wrong, let it go...

Give me a break! One would think an engineer should know that "Nevertheless" is one word and should be followed by a comma. For example...

I understand that you are a high-and-mighty engineer. Nevertheless, you are still a dork.

I see that under the banner of free speech, testosterone driven bluster is tolerated (encouraged even?). I like most people, have no desire to wallow in the ad hominem mud. And while cliques are sometimes like that (a lynch mob mentality), it remains unbecoming. This is Brian’s house and it is a reflection upon him… his “day in the sun” as it were. As an advocate and presumably ambassador of Mr. Kelley’s life work you should know, Brian, tolerating that casts a poor reflection. Karma… our actions or sometimes lack there-of always come back to bite us in the ass.

Open-mouth-insert-foot…. We’ve all done it and if you haven’t you are either a lurker or a liar. While my opinion (that the engineering profession needs to step up and stop the epidemic of imposters if it is to halt the on-going decline in respect it has in the eyes of John Q. public... let alone increase it), I never knew there were so many drafters, garbage men and “golf swing engineers” reading these forums. To those of you that I’ve offended I apologize. Now, for the benefit of your forum members... please, just let it go.

 

[nmgolfer]

Well, this had a chance of being a good thread.
I don't care what title a man gives himself as long as he's good at what he does.

I'm sorry for being the engineer directly responsible for sending this train "OFF OF THE TRACK".

...Look at Mike's impact alignments, texbook excellent alignments, flt/bent alignments. Look at his sitdown move, textbook...

I agree.. Its like Nicklaus says in: Golf My Way... at impact all great golfers look the same

...As far as throwing from the top, is it feel , or is it something muscular that Mike did....

To me its feel.... complete letting go.... complete relaxation like your throwing a pitch with the clubhead being the ball.

How bout this, all the experts and especially the Austin experts instead of telling everybody this or that is bad instruction, break down the mechanics of Austin and teach the rest of us. What did Mike teach over anyone else that would make him have it better over anyone else? There are people on this forum that have recieved lessons from Mike, Doug even posted pics.

Lets start with Mikes famous pivot, break it down and tell us why its so good, and also tell us why its different, and how its different compared to what it's taught today.

While I don't claim "expert" status, I do use (and love) this swing. The difference is twist vs. tilt. There is not really very much to break down. The hips rock back and forth (along the target line) under the center of rotation (that vertebrae near your neck). In the Austin pivot any rotation of the hips and spine is incidental... unplanned... happens automatically. Most texts say rotate 45 degrees and that the power... (the X factor) comes from maximizing the angle between hips and shoulders. Not in the Austin swing.

It all boils down to clubhead speed. What can the golfer do to maximize his/her clubhead speed? It turns out he/she can accelerate the clubhead (much) faster via a hip/spine tilting action than by a twisting rotating action. Why? Eventually biomechanics will tell us exactly why but for now those who would adopt an Austin type swing must accept this premis on faith. Know that It takes a while to groove the pivot/timing but when you get it, believe me you'll know it.

 

[peru]

Well, this had a chance of being a good thread.
I don't care what title a man gives himself as long as he's good at what he does.

In all my study of Mike's instruction, i never remember him saying to straighten the rear wrist, he does say not to hinder or hold, but not to purposely flip the wrist. There is a difference in flipping on purpose, and letting the wrist be moved in a certain way by the weight and physics of the club.

Now instead of saying you should or shouldnt unbend the rear wrist, THINK about why an instructor would tell someone NOT to unbend or flip the rear wrist.
It's not to hard to figure out, just watch most people on the course.

Look at Mike's impact alignments, texbook excellent alignments, flt/bent alignments. Look at his sitdown move, textbook. What ever Mike taught, it put him in momentary positions caught on film that TGM teaches, yes or no?

As far as throwing from the top, is it feel , or is it something muscular that Mike did, look at his pics, his angles are excellent, so looking at his pics, or watching his swing he surely isnt changing or losing any angles at the top.

How bout this, all the experts and especially the Austin experts instead of telling everybody this or that is bad instruction, break down the mechanics of Austin and teach the rest of us. What did Mike teach over anyone else that would make him have it better over anyone else? There are people on this forum that have recieved lessons from Mike, Doug even posted pics.

Lets start with Mikes famous pivot, break it down and tell us why its so good, and also tell us why its different, and how its different compared to what it's taught today.

i agree. any one of you guys that have had first hand instruction from MA put together a video (in slow-mo) demostrating the pivot/swing etc.. (in slo-mo)

that would help a lot of us better understand the pelvic action , the chop, the throw from the top , etc,etc in the MA swing

i can watch the swing on a dvd in slo-mo , but i can't see the minute details
that you can see wher the swing is performed in slo-mo

peru

 

[thinkin2]

Peru,
The dvd's, both Peaceriver and GIMI, showing Mike Austin in the skeleton suit are about the best examples you are going to get as far as watching his moves on video. I especially like the Peaceriver segment because he was much younger then. I think doing the rope drill, very slowly at first, is a great way to begin to feel what the pivot is (focus on your lower body, not your arms pulling the rope). It really is only about the way you shift your weight, not a mysterious secret at all. Try the rope drill and best of luck.
Jerry

 

[rosser]

Austin talk 5 star

Brian,

Time to show what your made of. Its seems the best swings are Hogan and Austin, depending on who you talk to. Austin was extremely bright, learned his swing some what easy, we all know Hogan worked very hard to dig it out of the dirt. Both successuful to the fullest.

How about a indepth, all you can muster, detail on the differences of Hogan and Austin's swings?

Don't leave anything out, there are many Austin lurkers dying to know. and we know there are Hogan folks just waiting to see if they to can improve on the likes of Mikes in the distance end.

If you are the first blood of a true teachers, I trust you could be the first one to truly provide the information needed to start from the bottom and lead them to the dynamics of how MA truly founded his effortless, without doubt most powerful swing known to golf.

This can be fun, and I don't know anyone that might be able to pull it off then you. Austin told me to stay silent to the truths, I did my part. There are some on the Austin site that think they know, only they too struggle with teaching it , which only lead to they don't know Jack.

If you could show a clip of you doing both swings, with words to the wise on what you must do and not mix between the two.

Magazine awaits if you can pull this one off. $$$

R