Backswing

[zachgolf]

Which is preferable IYHO, a left hand/arm/shoulder dominated backswing, or a right h/a/s dominated backswing? And why?

There are people advocating right h/a/s dominated backswing with external rotation of right shoulder specifically. I disagree with this in the sense that the ext rot of right s dominates.

IMHO, left h/a/s should dominate because this will keep the shoulders back while you transition, especially if you use hips like Hogan taught. Tje more you keep left s back in transition, actively that is, the more you get into the slot. In fact I find this is the onlh way to get into the slot without losing power.

Thoughts? Let's have a meaningful discussion for once. At the end of the day, we're all guessing here, unless of course you've actually won on Tour.

 

[DerSchnupfTabakHalter]

Which is preferable IYHO, a left hand/arm/shoulder dominated backswing, or a right h/a/s dominated backswing? And why?

Thoughts?

I certainly feel a left a/s dominance in the backswing but definitely have right hand dominance in this movement. Left arm radius/extension, left shoulder turn under the chin but my dominant right hand feels wrist cock, club face conditions and shaft plane. In the downswing it's all right dominant for me.

 

[wulsy]

Which is preferable IYHO, a left hand/arm/shoulder dominated backswing, or a right h/a/s dominated backswing? And why?

There are people advocating right h/a/s dominated backswing with external rotation of right shoulder specifically. I disagree with this in the sense that the ext rot of right s dominates.

IMHO, left h/a/s should dominate because this will keep the shoulders back while you transition, especially if you use hips like Hogan taught. Tje more you keep left s back in transition, actively that is, the more you get into the slot. In fact I find this is the onlh way to get into the slot without losing power.

Thoughts? Let's have a meaningful discussion for once. At the end of the day, we're all guessing here, unless of course you've actually won on Tour.

You won't get a meaningful discussion here bud, cos you're about ten years behind the curve! Not many here are interested in that kind of basic sheet here.

 

[DerSchnupfTabakHalter]

You won't get a meaningful discussion here bud, cos you're about ten years behind the curve! Not many here are interested in that kind of basic sheet here.

Why would such a discussion be described as a basic sheet. Surely simple fundamentals are the most important aspects of a 'carved in stone' golf swing?

 

[zachgolf]

You won't get a meaningful discussion here bud, cos you're about ten years behind the curve! Not many here are interested in that kind of basic sheet here.

What is it that make me behind the curve by 10 years?

 

[magicmarker]

"Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless."

Kenny Powers

 

[DerSchnupfTabakHalter]

"Talent comes from sound fundamentals."

Evan Almighty

 

[sweetser]

Which is preferable IYHO, a left hand/arm/shoulder dominated backswing, or a right h/a/s dominated backswing? And why?

There are people advocating right h/a/s dominated backswing with external rotation of right shoulder specifically. I disagree with this in the sense that the ext rot of right s dominates.

IMHO, left h/a/s should dominate because this will keep the shoulders back while you transition, especially if you use hips like Hogan taught. Tje more you keep left s back in transition, actively that is, the more you get into the slot. In fact I find this is the onlh way to get into the slot without losing power.

Thoughts? Let's have a meaningful discussion for once. At the end of the day, we're all guessing here, unless of course you've actually won on Tour.

Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus both pushed the club back with the left arm and viewed the role of the right arm as completely passive on the backswing. I think they both won on Tour...

 

[zachgolf]

I asked this because there are teachers that teach a right hand dominated backswing, which is not only unnecessary but also damaging IMO.

This also relates very much to transition, which nobody even talks about.

One should make sure the right h/a/s moves/bends properly, but dominate the backswing? No way.

What should dominate is the left h/a/s for three reasons: (1) to make sure the left s/a/h is on plane always (ball-shoulder plane), (2) to build resistance against inside of right foot, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, (3) to keep the left s/a/h and club back during transition.

This is the only way to ensure you BOTH slot the club and develop/maintain torque between lower and upper body (for use after).

All of these are just IMPOSSIBLE with a right hand dominated backswing. All the right hand should do is hold on with 2 middle fingers, right elbow bend in and let right shoulder rotate externally. Actively externally rotating the right shoulder will get the club and left arm bounce off if your timing is off. Requires much more timing.

Apologies for putting forward just basic sheets...

 

[zachgolf]

"Fundamentals are the crutch of the talentless."

Kenny Powers

"Talent comes from sound fundamentals."

Evan Almighty

"Only talent can make can make a swing with no fundamentals work."

Austin Powers

"Talent plus sound fundamentals make legends."

Amor Powers

 

[ZAP]

So talent=good or.....

 

[DerSchnupfTabakHalter]

What should dominate is the left h/a/s for three reasons: (1) to make sure the left s/a/h is on plane always (ball-shoulder plane), (2) to build resistance against inside of right foot, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, (3) to keep the left s/a/h and club back during transition.

This is the only way to ensure you BOTH slot the club and develop/maintain torque between lower and upper body (for use after).

As I said earlier, I agree with left a/s dominance but right hand dominance cannot be excluded for right dominant swingers. I hold the club with a reverse overlap grip so I have three holding fingers and not two. During back swing and transition I control 3 things with my right hand, wrist cock, shaft plane and club head control. I understand that some/most golfers do this with left dominance but surely, there are no can'ts for right hand dominant golfers like me.

Apologies for putting forward just basic sheets...

Apology accepted!

 

[zachgolf]

As I said earlier, I agree with left a/s dominance but right hand dominance cannot be excluded for right dominant swingers. I hold the club with a reverse overlap grip so I have three holding fingers and not two. During back swing and transition I control 3 things with my right hand, wrist cock, shaft plane and club head control. I understand that some/most golfers do this with left dominance but surely, there are no can'ts for right hand dominant golfers like me.





Apology accepted!

Even for reverse overlap, pressure with 2 middle fingers of right hand (or last 3 including overlapping/hooking pinkie) makes right wrist readily bend without you having to actively do it. Keeps right wrist bent too during transition, which readily makes right wrist and hand rotate clockwise without you actively doing it b

Also prevents right hand from rolling clockwise, thereby keeping clubshaft vertical even if you push with your left s/a/h.

 

[DerSchnupfTabakHalter]

Even for reverse overlap, pressure with 2 middle fingers of right hand (or last 3 including overlapping/hooking pinkie)

With a reverse overlap (RH) the overlap/hooking finger isn't the right pinkie but the left index finger.

This makes right wrist readily bend without you having to actively do it. Keeps right wrist bent too during transition, which readily makes right wrist and hand rotate clockwise without you actively doing it

I would argue that the underarm/hand rotation has more to do with the dynamics or the physics of the inclined arc of the swing

Also prevents right hand from rolling clockwise, thereby keeping club shaft vertical even if you push with your left s/a/h.

I am struggling with the vertical club shaft. Where or when does/should this occur

 

[redjeep83]

doesn't matter,at the end of the day it's best to use both arms as unit in backswing, not one more than other

 

[zachgolf]

With a reverse overlap (RH) the overlap/hooking finger isn't the right pinkie but the left index finger.



I would argue that the underarm/hand rotation has more to do with the dynamics or the physics of the inclined arc of the swing



I am struggling with the vertical club shaft. Where or when does/should this occur

I've wondered why the overlap was invented by Vardon, with right pinkie hooking as espoused by Hogan. I think this supports the principle that the left hand should dominate, so all four fingers should be on the grip.

Vertical clubshaft when left arm is parallel (more vertical or on plane rather than more or too horizontal). Helps you layoff the clubshaft in transition. I like the right hand kept on same address position relative to clubshaft during the entire swing, allows me to be left s/a/h dominant without getting clubshaft horizontal. Even if I get the left s down below the plane, clubshaft gets too tilted (towards horizontal) if I don't monitor it that way with the right hand. I think this is also a very good reason for adopting a right hand that's weak (more on top of clubshaft, like Hogan).

doesn't matter,at the end of the day it's best to use both arms as unit in backswing, not one more than other

Of course. Just saying which is more dominant, which you mainly think about during the swing, which you feel primarily. IMO this is very important as changing dominance is like an entirely new swing.

 

[zachgolf]

I'm thinking, most important is the left s/a/h, especially left shoulder, being actively kept back while transitioning. If you don't, left s just gets too high and open that you couldn't rotate them as actively after. Also gets left a/h and club too out (too much shift out).

 

[redjeep83]

Feel isn't real, will be different from golfer to golfer and will change regularly as our feels change. Day to day body never feels same, you should know this.

Also, something to think about, right arm folding is what rotates left arm, if anything backswing should be right arm dominate if you want to think about it that way, however both need to work as unit

 

[zachgolf]

I think that right forearm/arm takeaway has dine more harm than good. Because it removes the mind/feel, or at least lessens, on the left shoulder during TRANSITION.

Simply pushing the club with the left s/a/h under the plane will bend the right elbow automatically. If you keep the right armpit pressured/connected and keep right hand on top and holding on with 2 middle fingers (actually pressure pt 1 in TGM lingo), everything on right h/w/e/s happens automatically and optimally, especially with respect to an on-plane clubshaft (not getting it too horizontal).

And this is more consistent IMO with COG shifts in backswing and then transition and downswing.

If you have a centered pivot, RFT could work. But a dual pivot (inside right foot in backswing, left foot in downswing), IMO no.

 

[zachgolf]

One more thing, its very difficult, if not impossible, to keep the left upper arm close or pressured and closer to the chest with a RFT. For lifting the left arm, yes; but getting left arm more flush? Couldn't do it.