Ben Curtis

[Tball88]

I don't mind the flip action, I just have trouble squaring the club a little with the longer clubs. It seems to me that with no active roll of the left arm it's easy to lose the ball right.

If I'm going to flip, I just have to set up with a slightly closed face, where if I'm going to roll the left arm, I have to set up slightly open.

 

[self-mastery]

I don't mind the flip action, I just have trouble squaring the club a little with the longer clubs. It seems to me that with no active roll of the left arm it's easy to lose the ball right.

If I'm going to flip, I just have to set up with a slightly closed face, where if I'm going to roll the left arm, I have to set up slightly open.

I guess that I'm not really flipping? I sort of over rotate around my left arm, and let everything whip past my left side. I wonder if pure swinging feels super leaky to a player once he's use to beat balls into the turf?

 

[birdie_man]

S-M you hit it ridiculously far if you are flipping you have the most untapped potential ever................!

I say no way you are flipping man.

A "pure swing" (or at least attempt at...i.e. "pull from the top") feels leaky to me too. Mostly with irons. More of a mid-sole divot. I like when I can rip down on it with the leading edge.

 

[thefuture37]

be on the lookout for the next new golf digest. flipping might be the new fad in golf instruction.

 

[pecky987]

What is the textbook definition of a flip? I like to throw the clubhead past my left hand, and I'm not sure if I should call it a flip? I haven't lost any distance where it really counts (driver), but my long iron game is dead... I use to be a beat down masher long iron supastar with a leaky driver...

Tball you are so right on about being able to hit some flat out great shots by throwing the clubhead through impact. My big bad bad is a pull.

from my understanding, throwaway is the clubhead passing the left hand before the ball is stuck. you can do it in such a way that you still have a forward leaning shaft but a bent left wrist, depending on your grip.

if your left wrist is flat at impact, but bends immediately after, a la SD1 IMO, then thats what i would associate with 'pure swinging'. i wouldnt call that a flip. see bobby jones.

i would call, by my own terminology, curtis' move a flip. along with ogilvy and goosen. it obviously works but i feel it works for them as they eat their lunches on the practice tee and really hone it in and get the timimng right. amateurs can not do that, mostly. you can obviously hit the ball well that way. i think TGMers dont like to see things like that because they havnt done the "flat left wrist until follow through" that is supposedly correct.

ps i like curtis' swing. looks like a SD swing. alot like mine

 

[thefuture37]

from my understanding, throwaway is the clubhead passing the left hand before the ball is stuck. you can do it in such a way that you still have a forward leaning shaft but a bent left wrist, depending on your grip.

if your left wrist is flat at impact, but bends immediately after, a la SD1 IMO, then thats what i would associate with 'pure swinging'. i wouldnt call that a flip. see bobby jones.

in the youtube, curtis is definitely a flipper by your definition.

 

[pecky987]

in the youtube, curtis is definitely a flipper by your definition.

i would call, by my own terminology, curtis' move a flip. along with ogilvy and goosen. it obviously works but i feel it works for them as they eat their lunches on the practice tee and really hone it in and get the timimng right. amateurs can not do that, mostly. you can obviously hit the ball well that way. i think TGMers dont like to see things like that because they havnt done the "flat left wrist until follow through" that is supposedly correct.

ps i like curtis' swing. looks like a SD swing. alot like mine

i agree future

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Let me ask a question:

What do u think would happen if i told you to take a slightly stronger than neutral grip and pure swing it through impact, what would your left wrist condition look like through impact?

 

[thefuture37]

Let me ask a question:

What do u think would happen if i told you to take a slightly stronger than neutral grip and pure swing it through impact, what would your left wrist condition look like through impact?

isn't this why Brian says the swing should be 85% pure swinging? So that your hands don't look like that at impact?

 

[pecky987]

Let me ask a question:

What do u think would happen if i told you to take a slightly stronger than neutral grip and pure swing it through impact, what would your left wrist condition look like through impact?

i did say it depended on your grip

 

[Brian Manzella]

Is Ben Curtis a flipper?

From the video I am seeing, no.

The backswing move he is making shows you that backswings are STRICTLY for setting up the selected downswing and loading.

"As ye go up, ye shall....."

Baloney!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Let me ask a question:

What do u think would happen if i told you to take a slightly stronger than neutral grip and pure swing it through impact, what would your left wrist condition look like through impact?

i did say it depended on your grip

Great answer and it does, the more neutral your grip the more it would look FLAT at impact, the stronger the grip (especially for a pure swinger draw-er) the more it will appear "fist flat" meaning if you made a fist.

 

[thefuture37]

Is Ben Curtis a flipper?

From the video I am seeing, no.

The backswing move he is making shows you that backswings are STRICTLY for setting up the selected downswing and loading.

"As ye go up, ye shall....."

Baloney!

so based on the pattern, a flat left wrist at impact isn't a necessity? is this an impact position that would be preferable for soft draw?

 

[RyanB]

???

So, Im more confused now than ever. I thought that flipping was a no-no. From looking at ben curtis on the one swingvision from 2005, how is that not a flip? If it isnt than what is a flip? I think I do a similar move in my swing at impact, and thought it was the root of all my problems, at least from what ive read on this site. But then after two years of trying to do the stuff in confessionsof a former flipper and never slice again, I bought soft draw, and Brian says to not "hold on" to straighten the right wrist a little. I am so confused right now I dont know what I am doing.

 

[Brian Manzella]

2008

So, Im more confused now than ever. I thought that flipping was a no-no. From looking at ben curtis on the one swingvision from 2005, how is that not a flip? If it isnt than what is a flip? I think I do a similar move in my swing at impact, and thought it was the root of all my problems, at least from what ive read on this site. But then after two years of trying to do the stuff in confessionsof a former flipper and never slice again, I bought soft draw, and Brian says to not "hold on" to straighten the right wrist a little. I am so confused right now I dont know what I am doing.

Good questions.

Here it is:

You probably need to learn to hit the ball with a flat or arched left wrist at impact—and maintain that flat or arched wrist—at some point in your development.

After that....you really don't want to do it to much unless it works for you.

I learn from my mistakes. I am a better teacher now than I was last week, and better than last year, and much better than three years ago.

You CAN NOT overlean the shaft and controls the clubface to path relationship unless you aim WAY LEFT.

A flip is simply another way to say, layback, in many ways.

Ben Curtis comes very close to a flip and probably DOES flip it on his poorer shots.

But, I don't know how many times I have to say that "compression" is a VERY misunderstood thing.

The ball really only knows SPEED, true PATH. true CLUBFACE, and contact point.

All that other stuff is VERY overrated.

 

[NSMS]

Good questions.


"The ball really only knows SPEED, true PATH. true CLUBFACE, and contact point".

All that other stuff is VERY overrated.

I would add True Club Head Loft to that formula.

True Speed, True Club Face, True Club Face Loft,True Club Face Path.

Flipping is just a word to describe Less Speed and More Loft at Impact.

All that other stuff is VERY overrated.

 

[Brian Manzella]

There's Hertz...

I would add True Club Head Loft to that formula.

True Speed, True Club Face, True Club Face Loft,True Club Face Path.

Flipping is just a word to describe Less Speed and More Loft at Impact.

All that other stuff is VERY overrated.

Not exactly.

TRUE clubface is EXACTLY WHERE the whole clubface is pointing at impact.

That would include "loft."

Go it?

 

[NSMS]

Not exactly.

TRUE clubface is EXACTLY WHERE the whole clubface is pointing at impact.

That would include "loft."

Go it?

Could True Club Face include path as well? Then you would have just True Speed and True Club Face at Impact.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Is Ben Curtis a flipper?

From the video I am seeing, no.

What? You call Peter Kostis (who's commentary I think is wrong half the time) a "stone" flipper and you say it as though you are really disapproving and deragatory (which I'm fine with), but then you say Ben Curtis doesn't flip....Ben Curtis flips at least as much if not more than Peter Kostis. Either that or Peter Kostis doesn't flip. Look at both of the videos and try to explain how that's not true or admit it is. Right now you seem to be really biased and inconsistent about this.

YouTube - Golf: Bobby Jones swing analysis

YouTube - AkdenizGolfClub Video 005

 

[ThomasTheTank]

I've always been confused myself between what some would call a flip and a full release of the arms (arms rolling over) through the ball. I know from experiencew when I was a swinger and did that + timed it right I hit the ball the furthers. To me a flip is a scoop and a roll is done wth full extension but I may be way off?