Bent left wrist and Open clubface
- Thread starter tongzilla
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birdie_man
New
I wonder this too. Best I can seem to come up with in my own mind is that it just does. I can't seem to put it in words and I don't know if I could explain it to someone else.
I know it gets you more "under the sweetspot." (under the clubface)
I know it gets you more "under the sweetspot." (under the clubface)
davidmac00
New
does it?
it seems to me that the clubface closes at address because of the shaft leaning backwards,not the wrist being bent.
dmac
it seems to me that the clubface closes at address because of the shaft leaning backwards,not the wrist being bent.
dmac
Best clarification I've ever read. You would lose your life using such filthy language at some TGM-oriented sites.
tongzilla
New
Does that mean if you don't turn your forearm independently (independent of pivot rotation) at the top but bend your left wrist, then the clubface would not be open?
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
You're correct but it's practically physically impossible to do. Your arm will respond to the turning of your pivot and it will begin to rotate SOME DEGREE at some point in the backswing.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Ooo! I know the answer...I know the answer...I know the answer...
....But it is way too important a concept to include in a little post.
Ringer is the most correct, but is missing one important detail.
If anyone gets it before I post up a little diagram or video (which may take a while), I'll give them a web-copy of every Manzella Video Available.
....But it is way too important a concept to include in a little post.
Ringer is the most correct, but is missing one important detail.
If anyone gets it before I post up a little diagram or video (which may take a while), I'll give them a web-copy of every Manzella Video Available.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
The left wrist effectively becomes more bent in the backswing, becoming more open at the top than normal.
The opposite is true of impact fix, the face is slightly open but the flat to arched left wrist at the top rotates the club less open.
The opposite is true of impact fix, the face is slightly open but the flat to arched left wrist at the top rotates the club less open.
birdie_man
New
One thing that's at least related that comes to mind......if I imagine my left wrist is a door hinge.....
Then..........if I stand on a couch and dangle my left arm and club so they're vertical..........and then BEND my left wrist (from "Address"), the clubface doesn't seem to close as much. Mostly lays back. Conversely, when I ARCH it........I seem to get mostly Hooding. (i.e. "delofting") Less rotation.
When I setup on an Inclined Plane.........and do the same Bending/Arching, I still get layback/hooding (respectively).......but now it also seems to want to rotate more. (Bent/Arched-> Rolled/Turned)
So that's one thing that's at least related.
The other thing I guess is............when I ACTUALLY am making a golf-like backswing (with a pivot and an armswing) where I'm actually TURNING THE CLUBFACE ONTO THE PLANE and (also) Bending my left wrist....................it's different.
(different from standing at Address and solely Bending my left wrist for the sake of an experiment)
Cause NOW (while making this normal backswing- and now that you've started to pivot and turn the face off the plane) when you Turn (Swivel) the face open...................the Bending of the left wrist serves to move your PP3 further UNDER the sweetspot. (under the clubface) You have to go further to get it back BEHIND the shaft at Impact.
That's my best shot I think.
Then..........if I stand on a couch and dangle my left arm and club so they're vertical..........and then BEND my left wrist (from "Address"), the clubface doesn't seem to close as much. Mostly lays back. Conversely, when I ARCH it........I seem to get mostly Hooding. (i.e. "delofting") Less rotation.
When I setup on an Inclined Plane.........and do the same Bending/Arching, I still get layback/hooding (respectively).......but now it also seems to want to rotate more. (Bent/Arched-> Rolled/Turned)
So that's one thing that's at least related.
The other thing I guess is............when I ACTUALLY am making a golf-like backswing (with a pivot and an armswing) where I'm actually TURNING THE CLUBFACE ONTO THE PLANE and (also) Bending my left wrist....................it's different.
(different from standing at Address and solely Bending my left wrist for the sake of an experiment)
Cause NOW (while making this normal backswing- and now that you've started to pivot and turn the face off the plane) when you Turn (Swivel) the face open...................the Bending of the left wrist serves to move your PP3 further UNDER the sweetspot. (under the clubface) You have to go further to get it back BEHIND the shaft at Impact.
That's my best shot I think.
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Bent left wrist would be a "hinging" of the club and would increase loft. At address you can bend the left wrist and roll the hands to make the clubface look closed. At the top of the backswing it is very difficult to impossible to roll the hands. this makes the clubface not on plane and pointing toward the ground which is open and not parallel to the left forearm.
swingobsessed
New
If the club stayed on the same plane a bent wrist would keep the club face closed, but because there is a plane shift at the top a bent wrist at the top leaves the face open? Just a wild guess, probably way off.
At address, with mid body hands, the shaft angles forward to the ball, so the clubface is turned some just to reach the ball and is thus closed to the target line. And truely that is not really due to the left hand bend and could be countered by players choosing not to rotate their hands ccw when reaching to the ball.
However, the second important thing to note is that we are talking about a time (address) when the clubhead is poking through the plane.
At the top/end, we are now talking about the orientation of the clubface laying (or not) ON the plane.
So the basic problem as I see it is there is different planar orientations being discussed but unfortunately using the same terms.
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Hmm... I don't know, but when I stand at address and take my right hand off the club and hold my left wrist so the left forearm cannot move or rotate and do a pure left wrist bend the club head moves forward (toward the target) and up but the face opens. Conversely, arching the left wrist the clubhead move rearward and closes. Makes me think the closing at address attributed to left wrist bend is caused by some forearm rotation or other compensation.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Bend the left wrist at address or through impact drastically closes the face and is one of the primary reasons for most people's "flip draws."
Arching your left wrist at address or impact will open the face and was one of the main reasons why Hogan did it because he knew it kept the face open and helped eliminate his hook.
You are doing something incorrectly.
BM,
How about this. When the left wrist bends down at impact, the two bones in the forearm rotate a little to the left, closing the club face. At least, my arm works that way. At the top those bones are already rotated the other way so the bones don't rotate, the club just opens. Ooh, I think I like that answer.
JD
How about this. When the left wrist bends down at impact, the two bones in the forearm rotate a little to the left, closing the club face. At least, my arm works that way. At the top those bones are already rotated the other way so the bones don't rotate, the club just opens. Ooh, I think I like that answer.
JD
Jim - You could be right. However, I was trying to totally isolate the left wrist action. If you hold the club in your left hand only and just let it hang by your left side and bend the left wrist without moving anything else what happens? That's what I was trying to describe - whether it has anything to do with the original question if debatable.
Now, in real swing, both hands are on the club and and the forearms can rotate so there are a lot of other things happening. If I take the grip at impact fix with a square face, then move back to mid-body hands with a bent left wrist I can keep the face square or let it close depending on how I rotate the forearms - so maybe the left wrist bend isn't a totally independent variable.
Jay
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
<---- needs to take pictures to explain
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