Breaking News: Hank Haney informs Tiger Woods that he'll no longer be his coach
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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vjsinger
New
Brian,
You need to get your ass on a plane and start going to TOUR events if you want to teach these type of players. Dump all of us(amateurs), get the Manzella Academy instructors to run the site, and only teach a few selected students and make your cash while you can with the TOUR guys. Last year you told me you were thinking about doing the TOUR "circuit", are you still thinking about it?
You need to get your ass on a plane and start going to TOUR events if you want to teach these type of players. Dump all of us(amateurs), get the Manzella Academy instructors to run the site, and only teach a few selected students and make your cash while you can with the TOUR guys. Last year you told me you were thinking about doing the TOUR "circuit", are you still thinking about it?
Being from Morgantown and a huge fan of WVU with friends close to the program I could give you so many stories about Dick Rod it would make your head spin. I am shocked he is still the coach at UM. Sorry to get off topic.
Tiger needs to spend five minutes with Brian and it would be a done deal.
jimmyt
New
As much as I would hate seeing you leave this site for an extended period of time, I do agree with VJ, if you are thinking about it "GO FOR IT". Why shouldn't you pursue a level of greatness and maybe your teaching methodology can be better served by honing a couple of great ones. Get yourself into the lime light. Isn't all about spreading the word anyway, regardless of how the word is spread, just spread the word. This way I can say that the same guy that gave a lesson to Johhny Tourpro gave me a lesson as well.
Follow your heart
vjsinger
New
I don't think it would be all that hard, depending on what Lisa thinks
. You can cut way down on the "tour stops", still do a couple of GTE's a year and go on the PGA TOUR circuit for a few weeks a year. Brian, you need to pick up DiMarco..he'd be perfect for you!! Tough, gritty, seems determined, but has lost his swing. All he needs is some confidence in his move, and probably a path fix Go after him!
. You can cut way down on the "tour stops", still do a couple of GTE's a year and go on the PGA TOUR circuit for a few weeks a year. Brian, you need to pick up DiMarco..he'd be perfect for you!! Tough, gritty, seems determined, but has lost his swing. All he needs is some confidence in his move, and probably a path fix Go after him!
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Time to leverage that network. If you really want it, go for it. Ambition is often what sets the winners apart from the wannabe's. I don't think it would be at all wrong for Brian to ask some of the tour players he has worked with to let Tiger's camp know he is serious about working with Tiger.
All of us are behind you Brian.
As Nike says... just do it!
All of us are behind you Brian.
As Nike says... just do it!
Why on earth would anyone ever want to coach Tiger?I can understand the higher profile and of course the money that would come with it but you can only go downhill from the aspect of improving Tiger.He's already number one.If he stays number one,well,most people would put it down to Tiger's talent.If he drops down from number one,it's going to be fairly and squarely the instructors fault.
I would rather take a struggling tour player and improve him to a top 10 player.That would really mean something.
I would rather take a struggling tour player and improve him to a top 10 player.That would really mean something.
bcoak
New
On the technical side, (Bill) Harmon feels that Woods's backswing is simply far too flat. "Golfers with really fast explosive hip rotation, like Tiger, tend to get flatter on the downswing. So if you start flat, where does that leave you to go? I'm not really sure what he's doing now. Some of the practice swings look like a gymnast's two-minute floor exercise. The golf swing is a second and a half. It shouldn't be that complicated."
Read more: Bill Harmon thinks he would be a good fit as Tiger Woods's next coach - Tours & News - Golf.com
Read more: Bill Harmon thinks he would be a good fit as Tiger Woods's next coach - Tours & News - Golf.com
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Haney teaches a flawed swing.
It got exposed.
Bill Harmon is no golf swing theorist.
Would he help Tiger?
Absolutely.
BTW, I thought the whole "Haney Leaves Tiger" spin was a shameful display of corporate double-speak.
A joke.
Not sure they had any other choice - Tiger did not want to damage Haney's reputation or the large income he is generating. Haney would never dump Tiger or damage his reputation. They were together 6 years. This is not Butch and John Daly where JD's life style left Butch with lttle choice.
birly-shirly
New
I can understand why some people might feel that Woods SHOULD have sacked Haney.
But I can't for the life of me understand why Woods would have made that decision right now.
He spends 6 years with Haney - claiming throughout, often in the face of "informed opinion", that he is happy with the process.
Then, in maybe 6 rounds of golf, playing probably the worst golf of his life in the middle of surely the worst personal crisis of his life, he blames his coach? If you buy that, then you must think that Tiger's in a very dark place indeed.
Even this year, as his wife seems to have found to her chagrin, Woods' year revolves around the Majors. If Woods wasn't happy with what Haney was doing for (or to) his driving, I'm sure he would have timed the split to be less disruptive to Operation 19.
IMOP - the timing of this is too bad to be Woods' own decision.
But I can't for the life of me understand why Woods would have made that decision right now.
He spends 6 years with Haney - claiming throughout, often in the face of "informed opinion", that he is happy with the process.
Then, in maybe 6 rounds of golf, playing probably the worst golf of his life in the middle of surely the worst personal crisis of his life, he blames his coach? If you buy that, then you must think that Tiger's in a very dark place indeed.
Even this year, as his wife seems to have found to her chagrin, Woods' year revolves around the Majors. If Woods wasn't happy with what Haney was doing for (or to) his driving, I'm sure he would have timed the split to be less disruptive to Operation 19.
IMOP - the timing of this is too bad to be Woods' own decision.
Tiger probably did it now to try and salvage the rest of this year and the future. It wasn't working and it was progressively getting worse. So why wait. That's if he did it.
If Haney left on his own who knows why? Maybe he just can't admit his theory is flawed and doesn't work for Tiger and continuing down that road is useless and he knows that and Tiger knows that so "adios amigo".
I mean 6 years and Tiger's worse now than ever before. Tiger changed his swing twice before by his account and both times it took 2 years for the changes to become second nature to him. So you do the math, it's amazing he stayed with Haney this long. IMO
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Jim Gray interviews Haney.
Supposed to be on this weekend.
Jim Gray, who's sole claim to fame for his life on the planet is this interview:
Geeez.....
Supposed to be on this weekend.
Jim Gray, who's sole claim to fame for his life on the planet is this interview:
The most notable interview of Gray's sportscasting career occurred with former baseball player Pete Rose. During Game 2 of the 1999 World Series, Rose was introduced as a member of the Major League Baseball All-Century Team. After the ceremony, Gray (who was covering the series for NBC) pointedly queried Rose about allegations of gambling on baseball, which he repeatedly denied:
<table style="border-style: none; margin: auto; border-collapse: collapse; background-color: transparent; width: auto;" class="cquote"><tbody><tr><td style="padding: 10px; color: rgb(178, 183, 242); font-size: 35px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; font-weight: bold; text-align: left;" valign="top" width="20">“</td> <td style="padding: 4px 10px;" valign="top">Jim Gray: Pete, let me ask you now. It seems as though there is an opening, the American public is very forgiving. Are you willing to show contrition, admit that you bet on baseball and make some sort of apology to that effect? Pete Rose: Not at all, Jim. I'm not going to admit to something that didn't happen. I know you're getting tired of hearing me say that. But I appreciate the ovation. I appreciate the American fans voting me on the All-Century Team. I'm just a small part of a big deal tonight.
Gray: With the overwhelming evidence in that report, why not make that step...
Rose: No. This is too much of a festive night to worry about that because I don't know what evidence you're talking about. I mean, show it to me...
Gray: Well, the Dowd Report says, but we don't want to debate that, Pete.
Rose: Well, why not? Why do we want to believe everything he says?
Gray: You signed a paper acknowledging the ban. Why did you sign it if you didn't agree with it?
Rose: It also says I can apply for reinstatement after one year, if you remember correctly. In the press conference, as a matter of fact, my statement was I can't wait for my little girl to be a year old so I can apply for reinstatement. At my press conference. So you forgot to add that clause that was in there.
Gray: Well, you have reapplied. ... You've applied for reinstatment in 1997. Have you heard back from Commissioner Selig?
Rose: No, and that kind of surprises me. It's only been two years, though, and he's got a lot of things on his mind. But I hope to some day.
Gray: Pete, it's been 10 years since you've been allowed on the field. Obviously, the approach that you have taken has not worked. Why not, at this point, take a different approach?
Rose: Well, when you say it hadn't worked, what do you exactly mean?
Gray: You're not allowed in baseball. You're not allowed to earn a living in the game you love. And you're not allowed to be in the Hall of Fame.
Rose: Well, I took that approach and that was to apply for reinstatement. I hope Bud Selig considers that and gives me an opportunity. I won't need a third chance. All I need is a second chance.
Gray: Pete, those who will hear this tonight will say you have been your own worst enemy and continue to be. How do you respond to that?
Rose: In what way are you talking about?
Gray: By not acknowledging what seems to be overwhelming evidence.
Rose: Yeah, I'm surprised you're bombarding me like this. I mean I'm doing an interview with you on a great night, a great occasion, a great ovation. Everybody seems to be in a good mood. And you're bringing up something that happened 10 years ago.
Gray: I'm bringing it up because I think people would like to see ... Pete, we've got to go, we've got a game.
Rose: This is a prosecutor's brief, not an interview, and I'm very surprised at you. I am, really.
Gray: Some would be surprised that you didn't take the opportunity<sup>.</sup><sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gray_(sportscaster)#cite_note-5</sup>
</td> <td style="padding: 10px; color: rgb(178, 183, 242); font-size: 36px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; font-weight: bold; text-align: right;" valign="bottom" width="20">”</td></tr></tbody></table>
Gray lobs softballs at Haney—which if Haney is healthy is a complete joke—and I can only hope the full interview is better.Gray: With the overwhelming evidence in that report, why not make that step...
Rose: No. This is too much of a festive night to worry about that because I don't know what evidence you're talking about. I mean, show it to me...
Gray: Well, the Dowd Report says, but we don't want to debate that, Pete.
Rose: Well, why not? Why do we want to believe everything he says?
Gray: You signed a paper acknowledging the ban. Why did you sign it if you didn't agree with it?
Rose: It also says I can apply for reinstatement after one year, if you remember correctly. In the press conference, as a matter of fact, my statement was I can't wait for my little girl to be a year old so I can apply for reinstatement. At my press conference. So you forgot to add that clause that was in there.
Gray: Well, you have reapplied. ... You've applied for reinstatment in 1997. Have you heard back from Commissioner Selig?
Rose: No, and that kind of surprises me. It's only been two years, though, and he's got a lot of things on his mind. But I hope to some day.
Gray: Pete, it's been 10 years since you've been allowed on the field. Obviously, the approach that you have taken has not worked. Why not, at this point, take a different approach?
Rose: Well, when you say it hadn't worked, what do you exactly mean?
Gray: You're not allowed in baseball. You're not allowed to earn a living in the game you love. And you're not allowed to be in the Hall of Fame.
Rose: Well, I took that approach and that was to apply for reinstatement. I hope Bud Selig considers that and gives me an opportunity. I won't need a third chance. All I need is a second chance.
Gray: Pete, those who will hear this tonight will say you have been your own worst enemy and continue to be. How do you respond to that?
Rose: In what way are you talking about?
Gray: By not acknowledging what seems to be overwhelming evidence.
Rose: Yeah, I'm surprised you're bombarding me like this. I mean I'm doing an interview with you on a great night, a great occasion, a great ovation. Everybody seems to be in a good mood. And you're bringing up something that happened 10 years ago.
Gray: I'm bringing it up because I think people would like to see ... Pete, we've got to go, we've got a game.
Rose: This is a prosecutor's brief, not an interview, and I'm very surprised at you. I am, really.
Gray: Some would be surprised that you didn't take the opportunity<sup>.</sup><sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gray_(sportscaster)#cite_note-5</sup>
</td> <td style="padding: 10px; color: rgb(178, 183, 242); font-size: 36px; font-family: 'Times New Roman',serif; font-weight: bold; text-align: right;" valign="bottom" width="20">”</td></tr></tbody></table>
Geeez.....
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Richie3Jack
New
I reserve judgement on this until we find out if Tiger put this together or if Haney did.
If Haney quit Tiger because he had a good idea he was going to get canned, that to me is a shameful display of corporate double-speak. And call me crazy, but if they are supposedly friends I was always taught that you don't ditch your friends when things starts to get tough and that's when your friends need you more than ever. So *if* Haney quit Tiger so he could beat him to the punch, IMO, it was a selfish, cowardly thing that only a manipulative ingrate would pull.
But if Tiger basically said 'hey, I'm moving on to somebody else, but I think it's best for you to say that you quit so it won't damage your career', then that was a pretty thoughtful thing for Tiger to do when he hasn't been so thoughtful towards other people lately.
3JACK
Chip Putterman
New
"But if Tiger basically said 'hey, I'm moving on to somebody else, but I think it's best for you to say that you quit so it won't damage your career', then that was a pretty thoughtful thing for Tiger to do when he hasn't been so thoughtful towards other people lately."
That's probably the story.
That's probably the story.
Well said! We will probably not find out the real story for a while.
Richie3Jack
New
I've watched the first part of the interview so far.
Perhaps I take the word 'friend' too seriously or have some unrealistic thoughts on what an instructor should be and should do.
In the interview, Gray asks Haney if this sex scandal had never happened would he still be Tiger's coach?
Haney states that if the sex scandal had never occured, Tiger would likely be playing much better. And if so, he'd still likely be his coach.
Y'know, I've had friends tell me that I was dead wrong and vice versa. I've had friends that have said something I didn't like and that caused some friction at the end of the day and vice versa. But, when all is said and done, I've always looked at it like those are the types of friends I want and I'm the type of friend they want and having a 'yes man' really isn't having a friend.
I've also worked with a lot of instructors. The majority of them were good people, but IMO the majority of them were mediocre or worse instructors. Still learned things from them, but now I know things about the swing and putting that are stone cold facts and their instruction didn't jive well with that.
Still, EVERY SINGLE instructor I've ever worked with kind of had the attitude that if we couldn't get it right, they wanted the chance to work on it again until we get it right. The problem wasn't their will or attitude, just their instruction could be lacking or flawed.
So, here we have Haney saying that he quit Tiger and if Tiger was playing well, he'd still be his instructor....but since he's not playing well, he quits on him.
I guess I don't get it.
I guess I wouldn't call somebody like that my friend. And I certainly wouldn't want him as my instructor.
As a golfer who takes lessons, I want to get better and I want issues/problems fixed.
I understand that it's not always going to be smooth sailing. But, shouldn't the instructor be there (provided you are willing to compensate them for their time)?
Am I crazy for not understanding why Haney isn't being skewered for bailing on his friend/student?
3JACK
Perhaps I take the word 'friend' too seriously or have some unrealistic thoughts on what an instructor should be and should do.
In the interview, Gray asks Haney if this sex scandal had never happened would he still be Tiger's coach?
Haney states that if the sex scandal had never occured, Tiger would likely be playing much better. And if so, he'd still likely be his coach.
Y'know, I've had friends tell me that I was dead wrong and vice versa. I've had friends that have said something I didn't like and that caused some friction at the end of the day and vice versa. But, when all is said and done, I've always looked at it like those are the types of friends I want and I'm the type of friend they want and having a 'yes man' really isn't having a friend.
I've also worked with a lot of instructors. The majority of them were good people, but IMO the majority of them were mediocre or worse instructors. Still learned things from them, but now I know things about the swing and putting that are stone cold facts and their instruction didn't jive well with that.
Still, EVERY SINGLE instructor I've ever worked with kind of had the attitude that if we couldn't get it right, they wanted the chance to work on it again until we get it right. The problem wasn't their will or attitude, just their instruction could be lacking or flawed.
So, here we have Haney saying that he quit Tiger and if Tiger was playing well, he'd still be his instructor....but since he's not playing well, he quits on him.
I guess I don't get it.
I guess I wouldn't call somebody like that my friend. And I certainly wouldn't want him as my instructor.
As a golfer who takes lessons, I want to get better and I want issues/problems fixed.
I understand that it's not always going to be smooth sailing. But, shouldn't the instructor be there (provided you are willing to compensate them for their time)?
Am I crazy for not understanding why Haney isn't being skewered for bailing on his friend/student?
3JACK
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