Calvin Peete Analysis (now w/ a page 18 blog post by Brian Manzella)

[Dariusz J.]

Can anyone think of any tour player who ARCHED the left wrist at the transition who wasn't one of the best ball-strikers?
Cal, Trevino, Watson, Lehman, Claude Harmon, Joe Durant,....we could go on and on.
And likewise, I bet if we look at the guys at the bottom of the ball-striking stats, we won't find the bow nearly as often.

Well...Hogan, Moe, Knudson, Nelson, Boros, Venturi had the wrist rather cupped. I put these names against yours ANY moment. It just proves that it does not matter in macroscale and this is not an useful common denominator.

Cheers

 

[TeeAce]

Well...Hogan, Moe, Knudson, Nelson, Boros, Venturi had the wrist rather cupped. I put these names against yours ANY moment. It just proves that it does not matter in macroscale and this is not an useful common denominator.

Cheers

What about if the left wrist cupping wasn't the left wrist action but something rather made by right hand?

 

[Dariusz J.]

What about if the left wrist cupping wasn't the left wrist action but something rather made by right hand?

Hi Tapio, long time, mate. I do not know what rear hand activity you mention, but if it is a deliberate action requiring conscious thoughts, I am not interested to know But it's worthwile to read what you have in mind anytime.

Cheers

 

[TeeAce]

Hi Tapio, long time, mate. I do not know what rear hand activity you mention, but if it is a deliberate action requiring conscious thoughts, I am not interested to know But it's worthwile to read what you have in mind anytime.

Cheers

I will PM you somewhere that.

 

[cwdlaw223]

Dariusz -

What period in the downswing do you believe that a golfer has done all that they can do consciously to influece the club? 9:00 o'clock? 8:00 o'clock? Our brains can only consciously direct movement in .2 seconds (.1 if you're worldclass) and the downswing is .25 seconds (with imapct being 1/2000th of a second). Pretty short period of time for conscious thought to play a role in the downswing, let alone conscious thought working at impact which happens in 1/2000th of a second. The ball is off the face before the vibration of impact goes up the shaft into our hands.

I'm shocked sometimes how accurate we are when you start analyzing the golf swing and impact interval.

 

[Richard the Nerd]

This is an interesting study.....

With regards to your argument against those who subscribe to "slowing the rate of closure"....
you point out

1. Peete don't have much left wrist cock (acute angle) when his hands are right thigh-ish in the downstroke

2. The face at this point relatively "late" in the downswing is OPEN.....is there a relationship to the ability to have the clubface more open at the hands on right thigh position to the amount of wrist cock left at this point?

3. With a more "expanded" angle....is throwing the toe over off the face of the plane earlier something you don't want to do? Or is it one of them "depends" deals?

Stricker seems to let the toe go earlier in this swing anyway...but who knows what shot he was hitting you can find other swings where the face looks open later....also could be camera angle etc.

STEVE STRICKER SLOW MOTION RANGE TURNBERRY OPEN 2009 - YouTube

Reason for picking Stricker....they seem to have similar expanded angles....was looking for some footage of Chris Riley....he may fit this model some too.....Stricker hits the scoring clubs probably as good as anybody from a stats standpoint ...then makes the most putts from 15 to 5 feet....kinda got some doo doo driving stats though...thoughts on that? You'd think he'd hit it in play more....the short iron swing for Sticker looks different to me than his driver move though???

 

[Dariusz J.]

I will PM you somewhere that.

Great. Thanks in advance.

Dariusz -

What period in the downswing do you believe that a golfer has done all that they can do consciously to influece the club? 9:00 o'clock? 8:00 o'clock? Our brains can only consciously direct movement in .2 seconds (.1 if you're worldclass) and the downswing is .25 seconds (with imapct being 1/2000th of a second). Pretty short period of time for conscious thought to play a role in the downswing, let alone conscious thought working at impact which happens in 1/2000th of a second. The ball is off the face before the vibration of impact goes up the shaft into our hands.

I'm shocked sometimes how accurate we are when you start analyzing the golf swing and impact interval.

Very good question, CW. I believe that the last chance of changing anything consciously is at/just after transition. However, the intention somehow matters, IMO. One's subconscious mind can be an excellent executioner of intentions without engaging conscious mind.
E.g. if one's intention is to crossover at impact (because one believed and still believes strongly that it gives power), one's subconscious mind may tend to create optimal conditions of the motion for this phenomenon to occur, i.e. pivot stall, thrust of arms forward, and finally crossover release. Problems can arise when it appears that one's (subconscious) ability of dealing with timing does not let this person have a consistent and repeatable contact...and it is hard to change it without "convincing" sub- and conscious brain that crossover is not the happiest choice.
Having said that I wholeheartedly admit that if a person deals with timing issues pretty well and hits consistently with this kind of release - it would be stupid to change everything from depth of subconsciousness and additionally lose some distance for one or two fairway more per round - especially on today's courses.

Cheers

 

[Richard the Nerd]

Great. Thanks in advance.



Very good question, CW. I believe that the last chance of changing anything consciously is at/just after transition. However, the intention somehow matters, IMO. One's subconscious mind can be an excellent executioner of intentions without engaging conscious mind.
E.g. if one's intention is to crossover at impact (because one believed and still believes strongly that it gives power), one's subconscious mind may tend to create optimal conditions of the motion for this phenomenon to occur, i.e. pivot stall, thrust of arms forward, and finally crossover release. Problems can arise when it appears that one's (subconscious) ability of dealing with timing does not let this person have a consistent and repeatable contact...and it is hard to change it without "convincing" sub- and conscious brain that crossover is not the happiest choice.
Having said that I wholeheartedly admit that if a person deals with timing issues pretty well and hits consistently with this kind of release - it would be stupid to change everything from depth of subconsciousness and additionally lose some distance for one or two fairway more per round - especially on today's courses.

Cheers

check this out....

Amazing Control from Tiger Wood's - YouTube

 

[Dariusz J.]

check this out....

Amazing Control from Tiger Wood's - YouTube

It's his subconscious mind's IMPULSIVE reaction to a disturbing occurence if any, not a supernatural control LOL. No sign of a conscious action here.

Cheers

 

[cwdlaw223]

Thank you Darius. I agree with you. There's so much going on in the golf swing yet we think we're in charge of it all and can control everything with our conscious mind.

My brain is hard wired for less body rotation and more of a roll release. That's how I'm wired and can generate power. 27 years of neural connections don't want to change, especially under pressure. I like my swing and play with what God gave me. I don't try to swing like anyone else. Won't work under pressure which is what I care about. A swing that works under pressure. Calm mind is what I seek. Fearless Golf!!!!

 

[BobH]

If Peete arches the left wrist in transition, doesn't that shut the clubface?

And if the arch is maintained all the way to impact, isn't the face closed throughout the downswing?

And if the face is closed throughout the downswing, how can it be open at this point?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Arching the left wrist alone opens the face, not closes it.

 

[TeeAce]

Arching the left wrist alone opens the face, not closes it.

Not that simple. It can do both, depending of path.

 

[wulsy]

Oh-ho, we've been here before, no?

http://www.brianmanzella.com/golfin...-manzella-video-answer-blog-4.html#post177178

What's your take on this Tee?

 

[Keefer]

The right heel coming up early helps square the face up, along with the arched left wrist (Dustin Johnson). Also, although he has a big shift into his right side there is no sway because he keeps his left knee from collapsing to the right, which makes it easier to get back onto his left in the downswing. Very good leg drive similar to Tom Lehman. Peete was a great self taught golfer who learned the game relatively late in life (for a PGA Touring Pro) like Larry Nelson.

 

[Brian Manzella]

"Bob H".....no.

 

[fadegolfer]

I love those pictures in the green shirt, i would love to be where he is at that point, all he has to do is rotate through and he eliminates a huge timing element from the swing. Fantastic clubface control, and body rotation through impact.

 

[spktho]

"Bob H".....no.

BobH=Jeffy?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Not that simple. It can do both, depending of path.

Who mentioned path? Just arching is what I said. So it is really that simple.

 

[Brian Manzella]

There is no Bob H.

There is no Santee Claus either.

Kevin Shields knows what is talking about.


If you arch your left wrist, and do nothing else, the clubface de-lofts and opens.


Completely separately, the clubface by itself, is open at the top of every swing you'll ever see on Tour.

The left wrist location at this point in time—at the top, is TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY dependent on the grip.

When the clubface is parallel to the plane at the top, it is 90° open to the plane. Plus, and very importantly, if you lay the club off at the top—or anywhere near the top—that OPENS the clubface. Across-the-line effectively CLOSES the clubface.

No mater WHERE the clubface is, if it isn't pointing DIRECTLY TO the target line, it is not square.

There is probably a couple of dozen other factors as well, but for now, this is enough information.