Clearing my hips

[DCgolf]

Very good job, Gents. Thanks. I am convinced that hitting 100% FiR & GiR is not such a rare thing as I predicted. I am also convicted, thanks to this thread, that Nicklaus deserves to be mentioned in the top list of ballstrikers.

Originally Posted by mgranato
I'm going to humbly suggest - that isn't golf.
You are missing out on some incredible fun and satisfaction with the game if you truly believe that. What if you miss the first two fairways of the round, you must feel a sense of disappointment over the next 16 holes. That's no way to play this game of misses, bad breaks, and imperfections.
No probs, Mr.G., I and my attitude have already been called worse LOL. I am disappointed if I miss the first one as well, however, I still have fun playing golf.

Originally Posted by DCgolf
Do you think it's accurate to say that when we went to long graphite shafts and metal woods, we left the era of great drivers? Great drivers like Palmer, Nicklaus, Norman all played with shorter usually steel shafts no?
Noone forbids reverting to steel shafts and hitting more fairways. Unfortunately, it would not pay back and even be silly if one is not punished for lack of accuracy from the tee. This is the way the true golf, that golf of "control is the name of the game" is being killed on our eyes. I hate it.

Cheers

Well i don't have stats to prove it but I firmly believe that Tiger Woods should never have gone to long graphite. His driving seems day and night since the switch. If you can swing 120+ I'd stay in control any day. Put him in 43" inch steel and I'm betting he still gets home on the par 5s. Just a guess

 

[DCgolf]

Alright sir. You seem trustworthy, so I'm upgrading you from "probable" to "almost certainly did" - despite the absence of supporting accounts in the media, and even though "countless" is one of those weasily wee words that could mean a couple of different things...

But UR still a hater.

For any of us who have played a lot of golf with Kevin that's not hard to believe at all. He shot 61 At my place in competition one day. Kevin Shields can golf his ball mate...

 

[Lindsey Newman]

For any of us who have played a lot of golf with Kevin that's not hard to believe at all. He shot 61 At my place in competition one day. Kevin Shields can golf his ball mate...

And plays a sick air guitar to Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"

 

[Kevin Shields]

And plays a sick air guitar to Metallica's "Seek and Destroy"

I have to stop biting my lower lip.....so uncool

 

[mgranato]

Very good job, Gents. Thanks. I am convinced that hitting 100% FiR & GiR is not such a rare thing as I predicted. I am also convicted, thanks to this thread, that Nicklaus deserves to be mentioned in the top list of ballstrikers.



No probs, Mr.G., I and my attitude have already been called worse LOL. I am disappointed if I miss the first one as well, however, I still have fun playing golf.



Noone forbids reverting to steel shafts and hitting more fairways. Unfortunately, it would not pay back and even be silly if one is not punished for lack of accuracy from the tee. This is the way the true golf, that golf of "control is the name of the game" is being killed on our eyes. I hate it.

Cheers

That's the name of the game (fun). I'm glad to hear that a missed fairway doesn't cause you to reach for the sharpest tee peg.

On your next point, ponder this...

Steel shafts were a HUGE technological advancement over hickory, and so was the ball of that period over it's predecessor. Hickory was so poor and so dependent on weather, age, etc., that steel was a much "straighter" aid to the club. The "new steel generation" had a huge technology advantage over the previous generation, and the advantage was in straighter more consistent results by way of technology. But why is that never mentioned in this debate? Often times this debate is carried on as if the great players of the "steel generation" are ground zero for technology. Players play with the best of whats available to them, and they adjust their games to take advantage of the current technology. For every lament you make about the current game killing "true golf", I can make the same sentiment about the era you love killing the "true golf" that came before it.

True golf has never been about "how", but "how many". And I love it for it!

Painting within the lines is not required, just big bold happy strokes.

 

[ej20]

Even though steel shafts were a big improvement over hickory,Hogan said that Bobby Jones could never make the transition.His release was too "flicky" which was great with hickory but he hooked like crap with steel.That is perhaps the reason why you see those really way back players like Jones,Vardon and Mehlhorn look very flippy.That was the technique required to use the high torque hickory shafts.

It is a mistake to copy the release of those players for using with modern equipment.

Another point that people take for granted is assuming that the greats like Hogan,Moe,Nicklaus and Trevino would have seamlessly made the transition to modern drivers.Tiger certainly hasn't.He drove it much better with a shorter,heavier steel shafted driver.

Hogan and Moe in particular favored heavy clubs and in Moe's case the driver weighed 16 ounces.I think they would not have drove it as straight using today's longer,lighter clubs to fit in with the current power game.Today,you rather miss the fairway and be in the rough where you just have a little pitch to get on the green than to have a mid or long iron in from the fairway.

 

[cmartingolf]

Knudson would hit 19 greens sometimes. He'd say that if he got'em all and hit a par 5 in two...

 

[Dariusz J.]

For every lament you make about the current game killing "true golf", I can make the same sentiment about the era you love killing the "true golf" that came before it.

Not totally true. Both hickory and steel eras were about precision, not length. Hitting out of fairway was almost always punished, as it should be in true golf. Now, it is better to spray shots everywhere but as long as possible. That's a huge difference.

Knudson would hit 19 greens sometimes. He'd say that if he got'em all and hit a par 5 in two...

Very funny description, I like it.

Even though steel shafts were a big improvement over hickory,Hogan said that Bobby Jones could never make the transition.His release was too "flicky" which was great with hickory but he hooked like crap with steel.That is perhaps the reason why you see those really way back players like Jones,Vardon and Mehlhorn look very flippy.That was the technique required to use the high torque hickory shafts.

It is a mistake to copy the release of those players for using with modern equipment.
.

While it is a very good point about hickory shafts special requirements for release phenomenon, Cotton talked about slap-hinge release already in steel era. Besides, if you look deeper and revert to earlier discussions there is no reason to discriminate this kind of release since it promotes lead wrist dorsal flexion after contact as the most natural move. The principles of Brian's new release technique is very similar.

Cheers

 

[ej20]

While it is a very good point about hickory shafts special requirements for release phenomenon, Cotton talked about slap-hinge release already in steel era. Besides, if you look deeper and revert to earlier discussions there is no reason to discriminate this kind of release since it promotes lead wrist dorsal flexion after contact as the most natural move. The principles of Brian's new release technique is very similar.

Cheers

Cotton may have talked about it but I have yet to see a clear example of his swing to see if he actually does it.

While I agree that a lot of good players may bend their left wrist very slightly just after impact,there is a big difference between that and a massive hacker like bend like the one shown in the supposed Mehlhorn sequence.

 

[wulsy]

Oh, oh, oh. That ole FLW thing just don't wanna die.

 

[Richard the Nerd]

Does the turing/raising of the pelvic girdle thingie assist in raising the coupling point?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Does the turing/raising of the pelvic girdle thingie assist in raising the coupling point?

This is the way I look at it Richard:

Stick and old shaft in the ground about 30° pre-impact, get in a decent pre-impact position, and pull the sucker out of the ground.

Whatever you recruit, must be good.

 

[Richard the Nerd]

So it seems that there is some agreement that Fat Jack and the Hawk are in a similar class ball striking wise...doesn't seem far fetched to me....

QUESTION to me becomes....what would a comparison of their motions show? Are there similarities? (I think so)....are there differences? (obviously) ...what then are the consequences/results of the differences in their pivot/arm/hand components? Do their clubs move different? What are the results?

 

[wulsy]

This is the way I look at it Richard:

Stick and old shaft in the ground about 30° pre-impact, get in a decent pre-impact position, and pull the sucker out of the ground.

Whatever you recruit, must be good.

Niceone!

 

[Richard the Nerd]

This is the way I look at it Richard:

Stick and old shaft in the ground about 30° pre-impact, get in a decent pre-impact position, and pull the sucker out of the ground.

Whatever you recruit, must be good.

Don't want to put no words in your mouth but is the implication here...the more "stuff" you can "recruit" the better? And if so, does that make it "better" or does it depend on the particular golfer in question? Or do you try to fit them ultimately into "recruiting more stuff"?

 

[jeffy]

Even though steel shafts were a big improvement over hickory,Hogan said that Bobby Jones could never make the transition.His release was too "flicky" which was great with hickory but he hooked like crap with steel.That is perhaps the reason why you see those really way back players like Jones,Vardon and Mehlhorn look very flippy.That was the technique required to use the high torque hickory shafts.

It is a mistake to copy the release of those players for using with modern equipment.

Hold the phone there. Plenty of hickory greats, like MacDonald Smith and Sarazen had very strong grips and were very unlikely to be flippers. In fact, the high-torque shaft would seem to me to react better to drive/hold release of a strong grip players of today like Watney, Kuchar, Sadlowski, etc.

Jones had a less strong grip and released a little earlier, but no more so than plenty of today's players. A number have a bent left wrist at IMPACT:

Plenty of hickory players transitioned to steel easily: Horton Smith dominated the tour in the late 1920s after the switch, and Cotton, Snead, Nelson and Hogan all learned the game with hickory shafted clubs. Jones retired before the steel era so we really can't say how well he transitioned. He attributed his weak finishes at the Masters in the 1930s to lack of competition, not to any difficulty with his tee to green game.

 

[jeffy]

Cotton may have talked about it but I have yet to see a clear example of his swing to see if he actually does it.

Cotton was a roller, not a flipper (or "slap-hinge" for the more delicate among us), as I recall. Had to because he used a very weak grip.

While I agree that a lot of good players may bend their left wrist very slightly just after impact,there is a big difference between that and a massive hacker like bend like the one shown in the supposed Mehlhorn sequence.

Depends on the shot. Look at Freddy's release on this iron:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/88_9jWWvmoM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Brian Manzella]

Don't want to put no words in your mouth but is the implication here...the more "stuff" you can "recruit" the better? And if so, does that make it "better" or does it depend on the particular golfer in question? Or do you try to fit them ultimately into "recruiting more stuff"?

The more the radius is in the ground, the more you need to "pull up"....but perhaps good players learn it in reverse.

The more force you put INTO the club, the more you can "pull up."

Get it?

 

[ZAP]

Thinking. And looking for an old shaft.

 

[Jwat]

Great video jeffy, really shows the uncocking of the right wrist.