As to the out to out swing, I note Dariusz mentioned a theoretical swing or machine, and I'd say the 'golfer' would be a machine with a triple pendulum arm and universal joints which are freely able to spin in all directions. So iow you could make a machine which could do that swing - it's just not built with arms with joints and constraints like a man.
Clubpaths, and Hogan vs. Tiger 2000
- Thread starter Dariusz J.
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Take half a bottle of vodka.Just before you pass out you will grasp it.
Dariusz J.
New member
Yes, the quote is more or less what I meant.
IMO, there is no possibility of playing a true straight shot without manipulating the relations between parameters. In an ideal world, a machine (set exactly perpendicularily to the target) would deliver a very slightly open clubface on a very slightly inside path at contact which is an equivalent to a very tiny push-draw (the path is circular always and we cannot assume that either a ball is a point or path/angle relation remains zeroed out and unchanged between contact and separation).
When you want to zero out the shot totally you probably won't end with an exact parallel machine-like position and clubface position nearing zero and path nearing square on an ideal circle.
Please correct me if I am wrong here.
Not at all.
Look at DBL's drawing. It's conceptually very good.
Cheers
P.S. Ad hominem remarks are usually a symptom of weakness. Won't comment them.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Oh really? Why is that? Perhaps you'd like to share all the times you watched Hogan hit a ball.
As for recovery shots. Here's the deal. Once your skill level increases, you can take more chances. By definition, if you do that, you will miss some shots or greens. But if you have the skill to recover, its no big deal.
I never heard Tiger say he had to miss #11 at Augusta on purpose. So where's the comedy? I'll go as far as to say it would be a laughable comparision to watch Hogan and Tiger 2000 side by side hitting balls. Dariusz, between 1999-2001 how many times have you been able to watch Tiger in person vs the amount you've seen Hogan?
As you would say...............ROFL
Dariusz J.
New member
I do not know if your post is directed to me, but I assume it is.
I never seen Hogan nor Woods in person hitting balls. But I have my eyes, reasoning and opinions of legends of the game that post-secret Hogan was exceptional like noone before and after him. I see no reason why should I believe you and not Nicklaus, Bolt, Venturi or Burke.
As regards comparision to watch Hogan and Tiger 2000 side by side hitting balls - I believe 99% of people watching them including today's pros would have gathered behind Hogan. Moreover, the very Woods would have stopped hitting balls and sit quiet and in awe behind the true master.
Cheers
I find Hogan worship ironic, particularly on this thread. Hogan had a "a secret". A secret, get it? Means I ain't tellin nothin to nobody. This forum is about sharing ideas to help each other get better. Hogan had 5 great years between the ages of 36 and 41. He figured it out after years of struggle. What did he figure out? Oh yea he's not tellin...
Virtuoso
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Agreed, but I would say there are a number of golfers that have gotten better after death, it's just that the Hawk has gotten the most better.
I'm a huge Hogan fan, but IMO, no golfer in history comes close to 2000 Tiger. Now, that is defined as total golfer. A discussion about swing is much more complicated. So, here it comes: 2000 Tiger could give 1953 Hogan 2 shots a side.
Steve Greffen
New
Especially if Hogan played the courses Tiger did... Silly argument, you can not compare the two, no way no how not reasonably. Mickelson and Tiger you can compare, Hogan and Snead you can compare. Hogan and Tiger it's all supposition and both sides are as correct as they are wrong.
mgranato
New
I'm just always amazed when someone says Hogan was the best ever or ever will be based on grainy youtube videos, still photos, and zero statistical data. And we all know that none of these older guys ever exaggerated any stories about ye ole times. But then again, I still believe Bigfoot is the fastest mammal alive - so who am I to judge?
Did Hogan have a video game in his prime? Case closed.
Did Hogan have a video game in his prime? Case closed.
Shot Limit
New
birly-shirly
New
But then Hogan had a movie of his life...On second thoughts, let's not go there...
Dariusz J.
New member
I have never argued (and never will) that Hogan was a better total golfer than Woods or Nicklaus. But he was easily the best from tee to green judging on many factors (precision, length, repeatability, etc.). The very Nicklaus admitted that he was EASILY the best ballstriker, much better than himself or Woods. Period.
And I am always amazed that people like to underestimate these, as you said, old guys stories. These old guys were better golfers than 99% of today's pros and they know very well what to say.
Secondly, there are some documented competitive rounds where Hogan hit 100% FIR and GIR. Even if he did it only 20 times in his carreer it is still 20 times more than Woods did.
Excuse me, do you suffer an inferiority complex ? You have just dedicated posts aimed at humiliating myself in this very thread so you don't need to repeat yourself.
Cheers
Playing with what equipment and what ball? The both of them in their time were great and I think on any given day either one might have the better day, who knows Jack might kick both their butts in a match. Jack Fleck that is.
Quote: Dariusz, "Secondly, there are some documented competitive rounds where Hogan hit 100% FIR and GIR. Even if he did it only 20 times in his carreer it is still 20 times more than Woods did."
Means nothing, in comparing the two. Bobby Jones played Walter Hagen in match play and was hitting fairways and greens while Hagen was hitting trees and the rough, but Jones got thrashed by Hagen because Hagen could get up and down like a magician. It's about score.
Means nothing, in comparing the two. Bobby Jones played Walter Hagen in match play and was hitting fairways and greens while Hagen was hitting trees and the rough, but Jones got thrashed by Hagen because Hagen could get up and down like a magician. It's about score.
footwedge, dariusz has said "tee to green" and you try to say rubbish due to scoring or winning. Well for my sake or readers' sake, please keep to a single line of reasoning. Woods in 2000 was a pretty complete golfer with very high skills in evidence. Hogan deserves kudos for his accuracy and control despite especially considering ovecoming his disabilities. Scoring wise is very hard to compare, imo, while tee to green comparisons stand a chance of being reasonable, though we can't transport either golfer to the other's courses and have equivalent competitors and equipment....etc.
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