"Complete Junk" (Audio Commentary w/pics!)

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Brian Manzella

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Just below is the Audio File link. Use the Pictures to follow along with the commentary.
http://homepage.mac.com/brianmanzella/.Public/completejunk.mp3
davidhardy.jpg

vijayhardy.jpg
:D
 
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revert

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yep, great explanation, thanks Brian.

Oh yeah, keep the audio commentaries coming with the images, it's a great combo!
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Thanks Brian...I'd still like to hear you discredit his analysis though [8D]

I hate to say it but he makes it sound believeable...I still don't know that much about the golf swing though...

One thing though- doesn't Flesch actually swing more like Toms than Vijay? This guy says he swings like Vijay? I don't get it.

I've just realized how confused I might really be right now...

(P.S. he has a forum...you should go stir up some sh!t [}:)])
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I want to expand on that....specifically, the transition part is where I am confused because that whole "all you have to do is turn your body back to the ball" thing (in his 'one-plane' swing) actually made some sense to me.

I still think you (and TGM) must have an answer for this...I just don't understand is all.

I have to give him credit though he HAS created a good theory for someone to buy into, even though it MAY be based on bull.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Nm nm I get it now I think...

Vijay is actually under the plane at impact where as Toms is steeper- but this is actually the correct plane...and Vijay will have to rotate his forearms more around his body at the last moment to hit the ball, right? So the problem with his analysis is that he has the line drawn on the shaft, which is wrong. I think I get it.

...sorry it's late lol.

Couple more things man...can you explain this 'anatomically' (had to bust out the dictionary on that one) flat left wrist vs. flat to the left arm flying wedge or w/e.
 
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ej20

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It seems that Toms is using the steeper shoulder plane(single shift) and Singh is using the shallower elbow plane(double shift).

I'd like to hear TGM's comments on the pros and cons of either method.As yet,i don't think there has been a satisfactory explanation.It's obvious both can be used succesfully.

It does seem,however,that the majority of the best ball strikers use the elbow plane.Hogan,Snead,Trevino,Moe,Faldo,Price,and now Woods.
 
mgjordan

mgjordan

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Brian,
I think this was great. The audio really is much more efficient than typing it out. This plane analysis was excellent and one of the best I've heard.
 
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Vaako

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quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

...

And another thing that gets me is that Toms' club is not pointing at the ball in one of the frames and in the next he has shifted so that it looks more like Vijay...you have to go back to the original page to see it:
http://www.mountainweb.com/oneplanegolfswing/p3_one_plane_vs_two_plane.html

Can you go into what's going on there?
Click to expand...
This comment made me go back and take another look at what Toms is doing. Gave birth to 2 additional questions:

1. In the picture 4.1 (the one after Brian's #4 on oneplanegolfswing page) Toms is dropping the club head below (Brian's) yellow line.

Looks to me he is using the turned shoulder plane for hands - but pasting a club head plane swift to elbow plane on top of it.

Now the Q - did you (Brian and David) ever resolve what was the root cause for this?

2. Is Toms backswing - clubhead flying on turned shoulder plane with hands getting there halway thru backswing - what people are qoing to end up with, if they really go for the Never Hook Again - pattern? And is this a real life optimal solution vs. TGM zero-shift pattern?


Vaako
 
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Martee

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Brian nice touch with the audio responses. Taking Golf to a new level of communications and teaching..

Regarding the Junk....To be honest I have attempted to read it twice now and maybe the eyes just can adjust to the white letters, but there seems to be a new set of terms or maybe a better way of saying it is that new definitions for old terms.

David Toms, obviously you are more familar with his swing that those or I. But when looking at it, I can't see the Zero Shift and I know you eluded to 'close too' but really isn't he a Single Shift with a Turned Shoulder Plane Angle?

VJ as you said is definitely a double shift with the Elbow Plane Angle. This seems to track with Dunigan and others who advocate this style.

Unless you set up with the Right Forearm on the Plane Angle of the Turned Shoulder Plane Angle, you will have to have a shift. Who would be a true zero shift elbow plane angle?
 
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nevermind

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couldnt have been any easier to follow, thanks Brian.

Is the right shoulder further down the T.S plane at impact than at address? If there is no change, I see the value in seting up the right forearm on the T.S plane.
 
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Vaako

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I tried to find anyone on any tour playing with zero-shift pattern.

The closest was Laura Davis - she seems* to be swinging 90% on turned shoulder plane with a small shift above plane at the top during her signature "overswing" move.

Anyone else?

Vaako

* "The Swing", Mathew Ruddy
 
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EdZ

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Interesting stuff Brian - I have to say I haven't really been much of a Tom's fan in the past, it always seemed to me that he was 'putting' the club into place on the backswing, lifting and placing it.

After watching the match play, I've changed my view though - he really smoothed out his motion and was swinging OUTSTANDING from what I saw. A subtle difference perhaps, but one that I really liked. A much 'smoother' motion, better tempo and dead on.
 
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armourall

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Brian,

I don't have Jim Hardy's book, but from what I've read about his "One Plane" instruction, the central idea seems to be a more bent over posture, with the Shoulder Turn ALMOST getting to the point of being a Rotated Shoulder Turn. I seem to recall they also hinted that the Hinge Action is more Angled (I think they called it a "gradual closing" of the clubface). Anyway, my question is this: as the Shoulder Turn moves more toward a Rotated Shoulder Turn, is there a natural tendency toward Angled Hinging, even with a Swinging Procedure?
 
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nevermind

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Brian you said David should have the shaft on the yellow line in pic 5, this is where im stuck. If the shaft and the right shoulder are on this line, where is the right forearm meant to be? If there is any bend in the right elbow how can the forearm be inline with the shaft.. am i going crazy?
 
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mb6606

New
If you drew a line through Tom's right forearm at address extending up through his shoulders I believe you would see his right forearm take away is perfectly on plane at the top. Is not the right forearm take away the single plane swing?
 
jeffy

jeffy

Banned
Very disappointing...all you've proven is that if you change the definition you can call David's swing "one plane" and Vijay's "two plane". BFD...
 
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