Experimenter's delight

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mandrin

mandrin

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On another site I ran across a post mentioning yet another book about Hogan's secret, seemingly it being on his left feet at the top. For fun I started to experiment with virtually all the weight over the heel of the left heel at address, and keeping it there, only using the right foot, close by, to maintain stability.

I started with just swinging and measuring club head speed without using a ball. Rather surprised to find that with, what felt like the same effort, I got a bit more club head speed with this one pivot swing than with a standard two pivot swing.

I went twice to the range just before it closed for the season and found it to be very doable. In effect I liked it very much. It is fun, using a driver, pure rotation, no weight shift, arms/club up and down, to see the ball still fly straight and on line.

Hence the swing is reduced to a rotation around a vertical axis through the left heel and an up and down motion for the arms and club. Left foot flared out, considerable lead knee flex. One starts to wonder a bit about weight shift. :D
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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mandrin said:
Michael,

Had some second thoughts ? :)

From 'prone to start an interesting discussion' to just 'hmmm'. ;)
Click to expand...

Mandy,

If I can be so bold as to educate you on the finer points of weight shift and the human perception thereof...;):D

"The issue of weight shifting in a golf swing is an interesting but rather fuzzy affair.

We are aware of a ‘weight shift’ primarily by sensing the pressure between feet and ground. However, simply momentarily lifting one foot will immediately put all the weight on the other foot yet there has been no lateral shift of any body part. Hence our senses can be very misleading.

Shifting/rotating slowly body, arms or club will lead to a quasi-static transfer of weight. Doing the same very quickly can lead to quite a different dynamic weight shift. During a down swing our weight can actually both exceed and become less than our static weight."

...and...

"There is a substantial difference between our senses and reality regarding weight shift. Moreover I wonder if weight shift is actualy generally understood in such way hat people readily agree on this issue. However this makes it an ideal subject of discussion for golf forums.

During the downswing Tiger shifts his body vertically - downwards and upwards. Moreover he also shifts his weight horizontally accompanying all this with a vigorous rotation around both a vertical and a horizontal axis.

There are hence various ways to use the body. However an optimum swing likely includes motion of the heavy body parts, as cause not effect, to obtain adequate velocity for the clubhead with the least amount of strain/effort on all parts involved thus favoring also accuracy, repeatability and longevity."

Have you altered your thoughts since you shared such wisdom almost 2 years to the day....
 
J

Jon Hardesty

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Ok Mandrin,

I have been watching some post season baseball this year. I know I am probably the only one, but anyway I noticed something about A-Rod of the New York Yankees. He stands at the plate waiting for the ball to be pitched to him. All the while he has almost all of his weight on his right leg and very, very little weight on his left leg. The ball is then thrown his way, upon which he shifts almost all of his weight to his left leg and swings the bat. Why doesn't he just hover over his left leg and pivot to hit the baseball out of the park?

I think this is a fair question to ask. What says you Mandrin?
 
J

jaridyard

New
Jon Hardesty said:
Ok Mandrin,

I have been watching some post season baseball this year. I know I am probably the only one, but anyway I noticed something about A-Rod of the New York Yankees. He stands at the plate waiting for the ball to be pitched to him. All the while he has almost all of his weight on his right leg and very, very little weight on his left leg. The ball is then thrown his way, upon which he shifts almost all of his weight to his left leg and swings the bat. Why doesn't he just hover over his left leg and pivot to hit the baseball out of the park?

I think this is a fair question to ask. What says you Mandrin?
Click to expand...

No baseball expert (cricket maybe?) but isn't it impossible to swing to left field if you're forward?
 
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B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Just the facts, Ma'am.

Here are a few SCIENTIFIC elements that need to be taken into account on power production...ie increase MPH of clubhead speed:

1. Pivot Rotational Velocity

2. Kinetic Chain "Snap"

3. Multi-Segment Levers usage

4. Arm Speed

5. Wrist Speed

So...

Even though, for example, Lindsay Gahm has a sweep release, she may have pretty high pivot rotational speed, and great Kinetic "Snapping."

For her, increased trigger delay (multi-segment lever usage) might slow her clubhead speed down, because it slows down her pivot or rounds off her snap.

A golfer hanging on their left leg, may have a slower rotational speed of the torso, but a better snap. Or more trigger delay because they are trying not to break the driver shaft in half pre-impact.

That's why I teach the way I do.

I have gofers with next to zero movement off the left leg on the backswing, and golfers with plenty.

Whatever works for the golfer.

The "Happy Gilmore" produces tremendously more "run up" speed that can be converted into pivot speed and kinetic snap for the athletic golfer.

But it might slow some folks down.

Baseball players LIFT their left foot, not so much to "shift their weight" to the right—which they do as well, but to take the weight OFF the left foot so they have a place to RUN UP to, before converting all that into rotational speed.
 
golfbulldog

golfbulldog

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Mandy, you know that as soon as you start saying that you have actually experimented with some golf in practical sense...that raises suspicions that you are just making it up....:rolleyes::cool:

So how many posts is it going to take for you to come out and say what you really think...;):D:)

Far more likley that you will post www.angelfire.mandrin debunks a myth.com than actually swing a club...:p;):D

So come on...quit with the stalling....give us your ideas so that we can cut out at least 10 pages of what will clearly become a 25 + page monster....

NB. If anyone reads this with the inner voice/narrator switched to anything other than "playful jibe" mode then you got it wrong... read betwen the emoticons...
 
L

lasse

New
You can hit drivers standing on your knees or sitting down as well, but what would be the advantage of keeping all the weight one the front foot through the swing?
Weightshift is IMO a reaction and not something you are actively trying to do.

What can be learned from a one leg swing drill is that a proper pivot does not contain a sway.
 
Dariusz J.

Dariusz J.

New member
mandrin said:
On another site I ran across a post mentioning yet another book about Hogan's secret, seemingly it being on his left feet at the top. For fun I started to experiment with virtually all the weight over the heel of the left heel at address, and keeping it there, only using the right foot, close by, to maintain stability.

I started with just swinging and measuring club head speed without using a ball. Rather surprised to find that with, what felt like the same effort, I got a bit more club head speed with this one pivot swing than with a standard two pivot swing.

I went twice to the range just before it closed for the season and found it to be very doable. In effect I liked it very much. It is fun, using a driver, pure rotation, no weight shift, arms/club up and down, to see the ball still fly straight and on line.

Hence the swing is reduced to a rotation around a vertical axis through the left heel and an up and down motion for the arms and club. Left foot flared out, considerable lead knee flex. One starts to wonder a bit about weight shift. :D
Click to expand...

Mandrin,
Does the vertical axis of rotation remain unchanged (i.e. not moving laterally forward to the target) during your turning on the lead heel motion ? Will tell you later why I ask :)

Cheers
 
mandrin

mandrin

New
jaridyard said:
What would be the mechanical/physics reason for the increased velocity Mandrin?
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yaridyard,

There are many concepts in golf which are just assumed and accepted by almost everyone without any thought being given to it. For instance, the ideal parallel position at the top yet a very short back swing can produce plenty of club head speed.

The human body is an incredible complicated piece of machinery and I am not going to pretend having a clue. My feeling is that each golfer has his own particular unique optimum swing. I gather that Brian also thinks about those lines.

All I can say for now is that this one pivot swing felt less restricted through impact. It had more fluidity to it. Try it out for yourself just simply swinging a short iron. I liked it particularly for small shots, cute little constant divots just in front of the ball.
 
B

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Clearwater said:
what could you possibly know Mandarin....:D
Click to expand...

BTW it is "Mandrin," and what he did hit a few balls was about a scientific as you guys saying the "reason" one of your students failed was because "he wasn't doing what we told him to...."

Imagine that.

Someone not doing what you told him to.

If all of those girls I dated would have just done what I told them to....

Ha.

I'll take your :D, and raise you a :mad::p:rolleyes::cool::eek::p!
 
mandrin

mandrin

New
Jon Hardesty said:
Ok Mandrin,

I have been watching some post season baseball this year. I know I am probably the only one, but anyway I noticed something about A-Rod of the New York Yankees. He stands at the plate waiting for the ball to be pitched to him. All the while he has almost all of his weight on his right leg and very, very little weight on his left leg. The ball is then thrown his way, upon which he shifts almost all of his weight to his left leg and swings the bat. Why doesn't he just hover over his left leg and pivot to hit the baseball out of the park?

I think this is a fair question to ask. What says you Mandrin?
Click to expand...
Jon,

I can't quite relate to baseball but there is one obvious big difference between golf and baseball - the substantial difference in weight between bat and golf club. I don't think I would like to swing a baseball bat around one leg. I feel it needs the active implication all of the heavy body parts to impart great speed to such a heavy object. This requires a stable platform, hence not some delicate one legged stance. ;)
 
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