johnnymarlboro
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Moving blimp, with a panning and zooming camera following a moving ball from above and at an angle. Seeing is believing though, right?
EYE ON: Tiger Woods' The Players' Champion, 2013
- Thread starter Rick Dandy
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Based on those video replays,it certainly does look like Tiger took a bad drop but the principle witness has to be playing partner Wittenberg.Some would argue that Casey might have been intimidated but it doesn't look like he was given this report.
"Perhaps most telling was Golf Channel's paraphrased discussion Tuesday with Rolfing, the NBC on-course reporter. He said he heard Woods ask Wittenberg if he should drop back as they were walking off the tee. Wittenberg said no, the drop should occur ahead near the hazard stake."
"Perhaps most telling was Golf Channel's paraphrased discussion Tuesday with Rolfing, the NBC on-course reporter. He said he heard Woods ask Wittenberg if he should drop back as they were walking off the tee. Wittenberg said no, the drop should occur ahead near the hazard stake."
TPC Sawgrass is so ill suited for him all he did was win 2 Players, the US Amateur, and finish second at the Players. Thats a CAREER course for most guys. For the last 3 years all Ive heard is he's done, never win again, terrible swing blah, blah. Now thats he's winning again, he cheats and only wins on courses that suit his game. With that i bid you adieu...
This is first time I watched any footage or actually read anything on the this.
What are we arguing about again?
Burner
New
Pro Tiger fans are saying the ball travelled parallel to the water hazard up to a point only a little way before the point that HE chose to drop the ball at and only hooked into the water late. Those "facts" are in dispute.
This film from all angles, and especially from the Blimp, shown repeatedly during live coverage, clearly shows that the ball crossed the hazard line to the left of the fairway and travelled over water from way further back than the place Tiger chose to take his drop.
Tiger has previous.
The shot from the blimp was not directly above the ball so there will be some parallax involved.The fact is,most drops are not precisely where they should be because the point of entry can only be estimated at best and determined and agreed on with playing partners.Wittenberg was adamant he dropped correctly so that is the end of that.
Actually this whole discussion has changed my view on it. I am what you Tiger lovers refer to as a Tiger hater. I can't stand the man, I freely admit that. And before someone springs the fried chicken thing on me, it has NOTHING to do with "that".
I think he SHOULD be given the benefit of the doubt here. Unless you were standing on that tee, you can NEVER know for sure where the ball crossed the margin. Wittenberg was on the tee. So was his caddie. END OF.
I think he SHOULD be given the benefit of the doubt here. Unless you were standing on that tee, you can NEVER know for sure where the ball crossed the margin. Wittenberg was on the tee. So was his caddie. END OF.
Burner
New
Wittenberg can be as adamant as he likes, and anyone can plead parallax BUT the ball flies over the front LEFT corner of the forward closely mown part of the tee box and is clearly going left.
For the ball to have travelled as Wittenberg agreed with Tiger it would have to have flown over the front RIGHT, or even wider, part of that closely mown part of the tee box. Furthermore, there is no sign anywhere of green stuff below the ball in flight, only blue - and grass, in that part of the States aint blue to my knowledge.
Just sayin'.
If video replays were used to review every drop,almost every one of them would result in a penalty.
"Why wasn't video used after the fact? As Mark Russell, the PGA Tour's vice president of competition, explained, they would be issuing penalty strokes numerous times throughout a tournament if they reviewed every drop. It is understood that drops involving lateral hazards are not always exact. The rules officials -- who did not see the ball flight -- simply had no choice but to go by the other player in the group."
magicmarker
New
According to the rules the drop was legit. Period. There are probably much worse drops made week in week out on tour by players who don't have the luxury of every drop being scrutinized from several poor camera angles.
Does anyone really think he couldn't make a double from 10 yards farther back?
Does anyone really think he couldn't make a double from 10 yards farther back?
Burner
New
My eyes and mind are open.
Curious how selective we can be depending on who is involved.
There is no rule I know of that says a ball which clearly has not enter a lateral hazard from the side (laterally) can be dropped anywhere the offending player chooses. Period.
The ball did not travel parallel to the lateral hazard at any time in its flight. Period. Just look at the film; its the same one we all saw in live transmission.
Curious how selective we can be depending on who is involved.
There is no rule I know of that says a ball which clearly has not enter a lateral hazard from the side (laterally) can be dropped anywhere the offending player chooses. Period.
The ball did not travel parallel to the lateral hazard at any time in its flight. Period. Just look at the film; its the same one we all saw in live transmission.
You are completely missing the point.The drop may have been incorrect but the mistake was by Wittenberg,not Tiger.Tiger turned away and did not see the shot go in the water and had to ask Wittenberg for his judgement.
The PGA Tour, to its credit, immediately released this statement:
"Without definitive evidence, the point where Woods' ball last crossed the lateral water hazard is determined through best judgment by Woods and his fellow competitor. If that point later proves to be a wrong point (through television or other means), the player is not penalized by Rule 26-1 given the fact that a competitor would risk incurring a penalty every time he makes an honest judgment as to the point where his ball last crosses a water-hazard margin and that judgment subsequently proves incorrect (Decision 26-1/17)."
So, again, since Tiger wasn't looking, it's all on Wittenberg. And the rule basically says "just be honest, because we can't penalize you later." To be clear, there will be no recant from the PGA Tour after the fact. That's not happening.
Impossible to tell where/if the ball crossed the hazard from television. Not even close. The man who was there, watching, in person, said where it crossed... end of story.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I've been in that situation so many times. If its not a forced carry its so hard to say where it crossed so usually the benefit of the doubt is given. It's like when it looks like you hit a big sweeping hook and when you find it its always more forward than it appeared from the tee because it looked like it curved so much more.
Burner
New
Tiger turned away because he knew, as Rolfing said, he was in trouble from the get go - not from a point 253 yards down the fairway, the ball never having laterally crossed the hazard line. Still, if it was all Wittenberg's fault then I guess that must vindicate Eldric.
This video and verbal evidence is there (and was there in live coverage) for all but the blind to see and the deaf to hear. But, the one man who should have been watching had already turned away because he knew the facts without having to ask anyone else. And, whenever has he done that?
Moral: never let facts ruin a good argument in defense of the indefensible.
Turning Away From A Shot
I've never turned away from a bad shot like Tiger's, at least not while it was still over land - but then again I'm not Tiger Woods and I have no idea what it's like to play golf in his kind of surroundings. It is always important for me to try to get a fix on where the ball last crosses land. Anybody hear what Tiger's caddie had to say about it, or did he turn away too? My guess is that LaCava saw the same thing that Wittenberg saw and that Tiger dropped the ball where they sincerely thought it entered the hazard.
Old Tom
I've never turned away from a bad shot like Tiger's, at least not while it was still over land - but then again I'm not Tiger Woods and I have no idea what it's like to play golf in his kind of surroundings. It is always important for me to try to get a fix on where the ball last crosses land. Anybody hear what Tiger's caddie had to say about it, or did he turn away too? My guess is that LaCava saw the same thing that Wittenberg saw and that Tiger dropped the ball where they sincerely thought it entered the hazard.
Old Tom
Lindsey Newman
New
I say we just drop it.......hahahaha
Now you are getting it.It was Wittenbergs call.Tiger actually asked him whether he should drop further back but Wittenberg said he was sure where to drop.
The fact that you ignore this point and call Tiger "Eldrick" suggests you might be a Tiger hater so you are excused from jury duty.
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