Good for You John... Fitness and Health are Earned and are Not Given...

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Bronco Billy

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I call it the no B.S. Diet and have used it with many clients. The diet is very lean protein (turkey), (broccoli and oat bran) for high fiber carbs and lots of alkaline water. I also take vitamins daily. No sugar, No Fat, No caffeine, No diet soda or beer. I do drink a lot of decaffeinated green tee as well and a glass of vine on Friday.

Strength train 3 times a week for 30 minutes and daily interval training for 10 minutes on the xsiser. The xiser is the best for this type of training and you can take it with you when you travel. You can also strength train with the xiser. I also do stretching daily.

The real key is calories in and calories out based on you daily activity. You start rolling back the amount of calories for 7 days and get down to 800 calories a day and stay on 800 calories a day until you reach your goal. Once you reach your goal you can add different fruits to the diet increasing your calorie intake. I added 2 bananas and 1 apple and I am now taking in 1100 calories a day maintaining my weight and body fat at 185 pounds and 14% body fat.

I have used the No B.S. diet with my students and just like learning the golf swing only a few have the determination to really do it right. The students that do the No B.S. Diet get results period. There are No failures. I would like to get Brian on the No B.S. Diet as I know he would feel much better and look like the picture with Ben back in 1988 in a few months.

If you have a plan and stick with it you will reach your goals every time. Knowledge is the key and you have to make sure you are getting the correct information.

I use to do personal training at a major health club with 20 personal trainers on staff. I knew if I could show the members how to get in shape I would have all the business. I posted a before and after picture of myself showing that I did exactly what the members were trying to do and my appointment book was full from then on.

I use before and after pictures with the golfers I teach as well. Sometimes you have to walk the walk just to convince people you can help them. Just a thought?

John...You Can Never Ever Again Be a Fat Ass.....Your Diet will Only be a Success if you Can Maintain Your Current Weight for the Rest of Your Life... If You Cannot your Diet is a Failure....

I Have been on Atkins Since 2000 AD and Have been Under 190 lbs for 2 and 1/2 Years...... I was 250 lbs Pre Atkins.... I eat a 1/2 lb of Bacon or JD Sausage and 4 Eggs Every Morning... I Eat 6 OZ of Planters Peanuts every Night... My Middle Meal is BBQ Ribs or Steak, or Deep Fried Chicken/Fish or etc... Total Carbs/Day 50-100 gms...Total Calories/Day 2500 -3000...I am Never Hungary and I Love the Food....

If You Can Handle the Truth Read "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes.... The Food Pyramid is Evil and Has Destroyed the Health of This Country...... Have a Great Day with Your New Found Knowledge....:)
 
Will Future jump in and try to make you eat your veggies???

Bronco I eat red meat and a bucket full of greens for almost every meal.

I need to add more carbs to build muscle... Probably some type of starchy veggie.
 
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i got deja vu reading this thread. how old is that post from guitar hero? his diet is worse than atkins. i dont really believe it anyways though. a 185 lb man that gets activity daily only taking in 1100 calories a day and maintaining weight? the numbers dont add up. if that were what he were really doing, he would look like a starving african child. starvation diets cause amenorrhea in women, i cant remember if they cause impotence in men.
 
If You Can Handle the Truth Read "Good Calories Bad Calories" by Gary Taubes.... The Food Pyramid is Evil and Has Destroyed the Health of This Country...... Have a Great Day with Your New Found Knowledge....:) [/COLOR]

Hey, something I can agree with Bronco Billy on.

Unfortunately, the Taubes' book is one that many will find hard to read.

Bronco, you need to let Guitar Hero know that keeping his calorie count so low doesn't matter. Calories don't matter, it's the low carbs that makes his diet work. He can go to as many calories as you with very low carbs, and he will be much happier.

Over/under for replies to this thread - 75. Unless Brian nukes it.

Deja vu indeed.
 
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Agreement?

I agree with Bronco Billy too. I didn't read the book. I researched the information on the internet and tried out the low carb route for myself. I dropped all the excess pounds, was cured of Sleep Apnea, and lowered cholesterol and triglycerides.

It takes a leap of faith to believe that the tall glass of orange juice and the white bread toast or pancakes with the Denny's Grand Slam breakfast is what is bad for you. And not the eggs, sausage, and butter. The good thing about low carbs is not having to count calories. Just eat as much as you want to feel satiated and watch the pounds melt away.

In this case, I did have luck with my new found knowledge.
 

Guitar Hero

New member
i got deja vu reading this thread. how old is that post from guitar hero? his diet is worse than atkins. i dont really believe it anyways though. a 185 lb man that gets activity daily only taking in 1100 calories a day and maintaining weight? the numbers dont add up. if that were what he were really doing, he would look like a starving african child. starvation diets cause amenorrhea in women, i cant remember if they cause impotence in men.

I have corrected the typo I am taking in 2100 calories and have lost a few more pounds so I will increase it up to 2500.
 
I have corrected the typo I am taking in 2100 calories and have lost a few more pounds so I will increase it up to 2500.

that makes much more sense.

losing weight with atkins is healthier than being obese. eating a plant based diet without refined carbohydrates is much healthier than atkins. it just depends what your goals are.
 

Guitar Hero

New member
We Know Sugar, High carbs and No exercise is why we get fat

Hey, something I can agree with Bronco Billy on.

Unfortunately, the Taubes' book is one that many will find hard to read.

Bronco, you need to let Guitar Hero know that keeping his calorie count so low doesn't matter. Calories don't matter, it's the low carbs that makes his diet work. He can go to as many calories as you with very low carbs, and he will be much happier.

Over/under for replies to this thread - 75. Unless Brian nukes it.

Deja vu indeed.

I know as well as most on this forum that the sugar and high carbs and no exercise is why everybody is fat in America. I still believe you need to count calories and find the correct amount for you after you reach your goals and not just eat as many protein calories with low carbs as you want.

I am sure if I ate 4000-5000 calories with low carbs I would put weight back on. I also believe you should limit the amount of saturated fat in the diet and eat low carbs that provide lots of fiber. This is easy with broccoli and oat bran and keeps the carbs low. I know Atkins dieters will say I can eat all the saturated fat and not put on weight but do we really know long term effect of doing this?

Billy is correct it is a big time lifetime change you will have to do for the rest of your life. This for most is too big of a commitment and they will fail and put the weight back on. It is funny that most golfers learn the swing like they eat. I see the fast food golfer that will always keep looking for the one golf tip that will fix it all. Just give them another large fries and they are happy. I see the Atkins or similar dieter and they are committed to what it takes to improve. I am sure you know which dieter will always be the hacker and which one becomes the player. Just a thought?
 

Guitar Hero

New member
that makes much more sense.

losing weight with atkins is healthier than being obese. eating a plant based diet without refined carbohydrates is much healthier than atkins. it just depends what your goals are.

Do you have any suggestions for a plant diet I could try?
 

Bronco Billy

New member
Good Calories Bad Calories-The Ten Conclusions....

Good Calories, Bad Calories - Gary Taubes

I have spent much of the last fifteen years reporting and writing about issues of public health, nutrition, and diet. I have spent five years on the research for and writing of this book alone. To a great extent, the conclusions I've reached are as much a product of the age we live in as they are my own skeptical inquiry. Just ten years ago, the research for this book would have taken the better part of a lifetime. It was only with the development of the Internet, of search engines and the comprehensive databases of the Library of Medicine, the Institute for Scientific Information, research libraries, and secondhand-book stores worldwide now accessible online that I was able, with reasonable facility, to locate and procure virtually any written source, whether published a century ago or last week, and to track down and contact clinical investigators and public-health officials, even those long retired.

Throughout this research, I tried to follow the facts wherever they led. In writing the book, I have tried to let the science and the evidence speak for themselves. When I began my research, I had no idea that I would come to believe that obesity is not caused by eating too much, or that exercise is not a means of prevention. Nor did I believe that diseases such as cancer and Alzheimer's could possibly be caused by the consumption of refined carbohydrates and sugars. I had no idea that I would find the quality of the research on nutrition, obesity, and chronic disease to be so inadequate; that so much of the conventional wisdom would be founded on so little substantial evidence; and that, once it was, the researchers and the public-health authorities who funded the research would no longer see any reason to challenge this conventional wisdom and so to test its validity.

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homeostasis the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are the most likely dietary causes of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance a disequilibrium in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated either chronically or after a meal we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.


In considering these conclusions, one must address the obvious question: can a diet mostly or entirely lacking in carbohydrates possibly be a healthy pattern of eating? For the past half century, our conceptions of the interaction between diet and chronic disease have inevitably focused on the fat content. Any deviation from some ideal low-fat or low-saturated-fat diet has been considered dangerous until long-term, randomized control trials might demonstrate otherwise. Because a diet restricted in carbohydrates is by definition relatively fat-rich, it has therefore been presumed to be unhealthy until proved otherwise. This is why the American Diabetes Association even recommends against the use of carbohydrate-restricted diets for the management of Type 2 diabetes. How do we know they're safe for long-term consumption?

The argument in their defense is the same one that Peter Cleave made forty years ago, when he proposed what he called the saccharine-disease hypothesis. Evolution should be our best guide for what constitutes a healthy diet. It takes time for a population or a species to adapt to any new factor in its environment; the longer we've been eating a particular food as a species, and the closer that food is to its natural state, the less harm it is likely to do. This is an underlying assumption of all public-health recommendations about the nature of a healthy diet. It's what the British epidemiologist Geoffrey Rose meant when he wrote his seminal 1985 essay, "Sick Individuals and Sick Populations," and described the acceptable measures of prevention that could be recommended to the public as those that remove "unnatural factors" and restore " 'biological normality' that is . . . the conditions to which presumably we are genetically adapted." "Such normalizing measures," Rose said, "may be presumed to be safe, and therefore we should be prepared to advocate them on the basis of a reasonable presumption of benefit." The fat content of the diets to which we presumably evolved, however, will always remain questionable. If nothing else, whatever constituted the typical Paleolithic hunter-gatherer diet, the type and quantity of fat consumed assuredly changed with season, latitude, and the coming and going of ice ages. This is the problem with recommending that we consume oils in any quantity. Did we evolve to eat olive oil, for example, or linseed oil? And maybe a few thousand years is sufficient time to adapt to a new food but a few hundred is not. If so, then olive oil could conceivably be harmless or even beneficial when consumed in comparatively large quantities by the descendants of Mediterranean populations, who have been consuming it for millennia, but not to Scandinavians or Asians, for whom such an oil is new to the diet. This makes the science even more complicated than it already is, but these are serious considerations that should be taken into account when discussing a healthy diet. There is no such ambiguity, however, on the subject of carbohydrates. The most dramatic alterations in human diets in the past two million years, unequivocally, are (1) the transition from carbohydrate-poor to carbohydrate-rich diets that came with the invention of agriculture the addition of grains and easily digestible starches to the diets of hunterepilogue gatherers; (2) the increasing refinement of those carbohydrates over the past few hundred years; and (3) the dramatic increases in fructose consumption that came as the per-capita consumption of sugars sucrose and now high-fructose corn syrup increased from less than ten or twenty pounds a year in the mid-eighteenth century to the nearly 150 pounds it is today. Why would a diet that excludes these foods specifically be expected to do anything other than return us to "biological normality"?

It is not the case, despite public-health recommendations to the contrary, that carbohydrates are required in a healthy human diet. Most nutritionists still insist that a diet requires 120 to 130 grams of carbohydrates, because this is the amount of glucose that the brain and central nervous system will metabolize when the diet is carbohydrate-rich. But what the brain uses and what it requires are two different things. Without carbohydrates in the diet, as we discussed earlier (see page 319), the brain and central nervous system will run on ketone bodies, converted from dietary fat and from the fatty acids released by the adipose tissue; on glycerol, also released from the fat tissue with the breakdown of triglycerides into free fatty acids; and on glucose, converted from the protein in the diet. Since a carbohydrate-restricted diet, unrestricted in calories, will, by definition, include considerable fat and protein, there will be no shortage of fuel for the brain. Indeed, this is likely to be the fuel mixture that our brains evolved to use, and our brains seem to run more efficiently on this fuel mixture than they do on glucose alone. (A good discussion of the rationale for a minimal amount of carbohydrates in the diet can be found in the 2002 Institute of Medicine [IOM] report, Dietary Reference Intakes. The IOM sets an "estimated average requirement" of a hundred grams of carbohydrates a day for adults, so that the brain can run exclusively on glucose, "without having to rely on a partial replacement of glucose by [ketone bodies]." It then sets the "recommended dietary allowance" at 130 grams to allow margin for error. But the IOM report also acknowledges that the brain will be fine without these carbohydrates, because it runs perfectly well on ketone bodies, glycerol, and the protein-derived glucose.)

Whether a carbohydrate-restricted diet is deficient in essential vitamins and minerals is another issue. As we also discussed (see page 32026), animal products contain all the amino acids, minerals, and vitamins essential for health, with the only point of controversy being vitamin C. And the evidence suggests that the vitamin C content of meat products is more than sufficient for health, as long as the diet is indeed carbohydraterestricted, with none of the refined and easily digestible carbohydrates and sugars that would raise blood sugar and insulin levels and so increase our need to obtain vitamin C from the diet. Moreover, though it may indeed be uniquely beneficial to live on meat and only meat, as Vilhjalmur Stefannson argued in the 1920s, carbohydrate-restricted diets, as they have been prescribed ever since, do not restrict leafy green vegetables (what nutritionists in the first half of the twentieth century called 5 percent vegetables) but only starchy vegetables (e.g., potatoes), refined grains and sugars, and thus only those foods that are virtually without any essential nutrients unless they're added back in the processing and so fortified, as is the case with white bread. A calorie-restricted diet that cuts all calories by a third, as John Yudkin noted, will also cut essential nutrients by a third. A diet that prohibits sugar, flour, potatoes, and beer, but allows eating to satiety meat, cheese, eggs, and green vegetables will still include the essential nutrients, whether or not it leads to a decrease in calories consumed.
 

Guitar Hero

New member
Good Calories, Bad Calories - Gary Taubes

I have spent much of the last fifteen years reporting and writing about issues of public health, nutrition, and diet. I have spent five years on the research for and writing of this book alone. To a great extent, the conclusions I've reached are as much a product of the age we live in as they are my own skeptical inquiry. Just ten years ago, the research for this book would have taken the better part of a lifetime. It was only with the development of the Internet, of search engines and the comprehensive databases of the Library of Medicine, the Institute for Scientific Information, research libraries, and secondhand-book stores worldwide now accessible online that I was able, with reasonable facility, to locate and procure virtually any written source, whether published a century ago or last week, and to track down and contact clinical investigators and public-health officials, even those long retired.

Throughout this research, I tried to follow the facts wherever they led. In writing the book, I have tried to let the science and the evidence speak for themselves. When I began my research, I had no idea that I would come to believe that obesity is not caused by eating too much, or that exercise is not a means of prevention. Nor did I believe that diseases such as cancer and Alzheimer's could possibly be caused by the consumption of refined carbohydrates and sugars. I had no idea that I would find the quality of the research on nutrition, obesity, and chronic disease to be so inadequate; that so much of the conventional wisdom would be founded on so little substantial evidence; and that, once it was, the researchers and the public-health authorities who funded the research would no longer see any reason to challenge this conventional wisdom and so to test its validity.

As I emerge from this research, though, certain conclusions seem inescapable to me, based on the existing knowledge:

1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.

2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homeostasis the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.

3. Sugars sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.

4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are the most likely dietary causes of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.

5. Obesity is a disorder of excess fat accumulation, not overeating, and not sedentary behavior.

6. Consuming excess calories does not cause us to grow fatter, any more than it causes a child to grow taller. Expending more energy than we consume does not lead to long-term weight loss; it leads to hunger.

7. Fattening and obesity are caused by an imbalance a disequilibrium in the hormonal regulation of adipose tissue and fat metabolism. Fat synthesis and storage exceed the mobilization of fat from the adipose tissue and its subsequent oxidation. We become leaner when the hormonal regulation of the fat tissue reverses this balance.

8. Insulin is the primary regulator of fat storage. When insulin levels are elevated either chronically or after a meal we accumulate fat in our fat tissue. When insulin levels fall, we release fat from our fat tissue and use it for fuel.

9. By stimulating insulin secretion, carbohydrates make us fat and ultimately cause obesity. The fewer carbohydrates we consume, the leaner we will be.

10. By driving fat accumulation, carbohydrates also increase hunger and decrease the amount of energy we expend in metabolism and physical activity.


In considering these conclusions, one must address the obvious question: can a diet mostly or entirely lacking in carbohydrates possibly be a healthy pattern of eating? For the past half century, our conceptions of the interaction between diet and chronic disease have inevitably focused on the fat content. Any deviation from some ideal low-fat or low-saturated-fat diet has been considered dangerous until long-term, randomized control trials might demonstrate otherwise. Because a diet restricted in carbohydrates is by definition relatively fat-rich, it has therefore been presumed to be unhealthy until proved otherwise. This is why the American Diabetes Association even recommends against the use of carbohydrate-restricted diets for the management of Type 2 diabetes. How do we know they're safe for long-term consumption?

The argument in their defense is the same one that Peter Cleave made forty years ago, when he proposed what he called the saccharine-disease hypothesis. Evolution should be our best guide for what constitutes a healthy diet. It takes time for a population or a species to adapt to any new factor in its environment; the longer we've been eating a particular food as a species, and the closer that food is to its natural state, the less harm it is likely to do. This is an underlying assumption of all public-health recommendations about the nature of a healthy diet. It's what the British epidemiologist Geoffrey Rose meant when he wrote his seminal 1985 essay, "Sick Individuals and Sick Populations," and described the acceptable measures of prevention that could be recommended to the public as those that remove "unnatural factors" and restore " 'biological normality' that is . . . the conditions to which presumably we are genetically adapted." "Such normalizing measures," Rose said, "may be presumed to be safe, and therefore we should be prepared to advocate them on the basis of a reasonable presumption of benefit." The fat content of the diets to which we presumably evolved, however, will always remain questionable. If nothing else, whatever constituted the typical Paleolithic hunter-gatherer diet, the type and quantity of fat consumed assuredly changed with season, latitude, and the coming and going of ice ages. This is the problem with recommending that we consume oils in any quantity. Did we evolve to eat olive oil, for example, or linseed oil? And maybe a few thousand years is sufficient time to adapt to a new food but a few hundred is not. If so, then olive oil could conceivably be harmless or even beneficial when consumed in comparatively large quantities by the descendants of Mediterranean populations, who have been consuming it for millennia, but not to Scandinavians or Asians, for whom such an oil is new to the diet. This makes the science even more complicated than it already is, but these are serious considerations that should be taken into account when discussing a healthy diet. There is no such ambiguity, however, on the subject of carbohydrates. The most dramatic alterations in human diets in the past two million years, unequivocally, are (1) the transition from carbohydrate-poor to carbohydrate-rich diets that came with the invention of agriculture the addition of grains and easily digestible starches to the diets of hunterepilogue gatherers; (2) the increasing refinement of those carbohydrates over the past few hundred years; and (3) the dramatic increases in fructose consumption that came as the per-capita consumption of sugars sucrose and now high-fructose corn syrup increased from less than ten or twenty pounds a year in the mid-eighteenth century to the nearly 150 pounds it is today. Why would a diet that excludes these foods specifically be expected to do anything other than return us to "biological normality"?

It is not the case, despite public-health recommendations to the contrary, that carbohydrates are required in a healthy human diet. Most nutritionists still insist that a diet requires 120 to 130 grams of carbohydrates, because this is the amount of glucose that the brain and central nervous system will metabolize when the diet is carbohydrate-rich. But what the brain uses and what it requires are two different things. Without carbohydrates in the diet, as we discussed earlier (see page 319), the brain and central nervous system will run on ketone bodies, converted from dietary fat and from the fatty acids released by the adipose tissue; on glycerol, also released from the fat tissue with the breakdown of triglycerides into free fatty acids; and on glucose, converted from the protein in the diet. Since a carbohydrate-restricted diet, unrestricted in calories, will, by definition, include considerable fat and protein, there will be no shortage of fuel for the brain. Indeed, this is likely to be the fuel mixture that our brains evolved to use, and our brains seem to run more efficiently on this fuel mixture than they do on glucose alone. (A good discussion of the rationale for a minimal amount of carbohydrates in the diet can be found in the 2002 Institute of Medicine [IOM] report, Dietary Reference Intakes. The IOM sets an "estimated average requirement" of a hundred grams of carbohydrates a day for adults, so that the brain can run exclusively on glucose, "without having to rely on a partial replacement of glucose by [ketone bodies]." It then sets the "recommended dietary allowance" at 130 grams to allow margin for error. But the IOM report also acknowledges that the brain will be fine without these carbohydrates, because it runs perfectly well on ketone bodies, glycerol, and the protein-derived glucose.)

Whether a carbohydrate-restricted diet is deficient in essential vitamins and minerals is another issue. As we also discussed (see page 32026), animal products contain all the amino acids, minerals, and vitamins essential for health, with the only point of controversy being vitamin C. And the evidence suggests that the vitamin C content of meat products is more than sufficient for health, as long as the diet is indeed carbohydraterestricted, with none of the refined and easily digestible carbohydrates and sugars that would raise blood sugar and insulin levels and so increase our need to obtain vitamin C from the diet. Moreover, though it may indeed be uniquely beneficial to live on meat and only meat, as Vilhjalmur Stefannson argued in the 1920s, carbohydrate-restricted diets, as they have been prescribed ever since, do not restrict leafy green vegetables (what nutritionists in the first half of the twentieth century called 5 percent vegetables) but only starchy vegetables (e.g., potatoes), refined grains and sugars, and thus only those foods that are virtually without any essential nutrients unless they're added back in the processing and so fortified, as is the case with white bread. A calorie-restricted diet that cuts all calories by a third, as John Yudkin noted, will also cut essential nutrients by a third. A diet that prohibits sugar, flour, potatoes, and beer, but allows eating to satiety meat, cheese, eggs, and green vegetables will still include the essential nutrients, whether or not it leads to a decrease in calories consumed.

It looks like Gary Taubes did the resurch. I learned something new today.

Billy, Thanks for posting this.
 
that makes much more sense.

losing weight with atkins is healthier than being obese. eating a plant based diet without refined carbohydrates is much healthier than atkins. it just depends what your goals are.

MEH

Eating a diet that is based on meat AND plants is healthier than a plant based diet.
 
I know as well as most on this forum that the sugar and high carbs and no exercise is why everybody is fat in America. I still believe you need to count calories and find the correct amount for you after you reach your goals and not just eat as many protein calories with low carbs as you want.

I am sure if I ate 4000-5000 calories with low carbs I would put weight back on. I also believe you should limit the amount of saturated fat in the diet and eat low carbs that provide lots of fiber. This is easy with broccoli and oat bran and keeps the carbs low. I know Atkins dieters will say I can eat all the saturated fat and not put on weight but do we really know long term effect of doing this?

Billy is correct it is a big time lifetime change you will have to do for the rest of your life. This for most is too big of a commitment and they will fail and put the weight back on. It is funny that most golfers learn the swing like they eat. I see the fast food golfer that will always keep looking for the one golf tip that will fix it all. Just give them another large fries and they are happy. I see the Atkins or similar dieter and they are committed to what it takes to improve. I am sure you know which dieter will always be the hacker and which one becomes the player. Just a thought?

Oh, I very much agree, I wasn't being sarcastic. Billy and I have a lot in common here and I know from debating him before we have about 95% agreement on this set of issues. I lost a lot of weight ten years ago on Atkins (and was also very active) and then put about half that weight back on over 5-6 years. In the past two years, I've made good progress again and have finally come to realize the eating change really has to be permanent, not temporary.

The reason I put weight back on the first time is I am around a lot of doctors and they were very sceptical of Atkins, and I really thought I was doing myself harm by avoiding certain carbs -- I should have been more worried about being overweight. Physicians in the US are underinformed about this and some of them who are not and who are friends and are specialists and understand these issues, also tell me that they are sometimes hesitant/afraid to tell patients advice that contradicts the prevailing nutritionist/food pyramid wisdom because they expect criticism from peers, especially older peers.

Reading Taubes' book gave me the scientific basis necessary to feel confident with the decision to drastically reduce carbs. Atkins followed by Taubes' book was a life changer. I've still got a little ways to go, but I hate to think where I'd be otherwise.

As far as the calories go, I find it hard to exceed 2500 calories a day once I eliminate the carbs. My only point here is you can eat 2000 of the wrong calories and be fat or stay fat or eat 2000 of another set of calories and not be fat. For the enormous number of people who have tried to lose weight by counting calories, moderate exercise increase, and then fail, this is a revelation (if a strategy fails for 99% of people who try it, there may be a problem, and as Taubes points out, with the strategy. In what other area does a treatment strategy with a 99% failure rate continue to be viewed as a patient-problem and not a treatment-problem?).

I don't want to get sucked into another debate on diet here -the last one went on forever. But I do also think there is some value to also avoiding too much of any one food, limiting nitrates and eating some low carb vegetables instead of, say, bacon, at every meal (although you can get bacon now with minimal nitrates!) -- but as between being fat and increasing nitrate exposure, I'd take the nitrate risk. So, I agree in some sense with both Bronco Billy and theFuture37.

Finally, part of the brilliance of Taubes book is that he puts his finger on the "willpower" issue. He explains why the issue is more an informational issue than a willpower issue. The standard "low calorie, increase exercise moderately, eat whole grains" paradigm will work but for very few people - it's an inefficient and imperfectly formulated approach with some elements of likely defeat built-in.

Read Good Calories, Bad Calories if you haven't by Gary Taubes (it's not a "diet book", by the way, it's a book that uses current science information to compile a complex argument about the failure of the prevailing "food pyramid wisdom" to work). Bronco Billy is dead right about this.
 
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Bronco Billy

New member
And Bronco Billy is Also Dead Right About a Lot of Other Missing Threads....

Oh, I very much agree, I wasn't being sarcastic. Billy and I have a lot in common here and I know from debating him before we have about 95% agreement on this set of issues. I lost a lot of weight ten years ago on Atkins (and was also very active) and then put about half that weight back on over 5-6 years. In the past two years, I've made good progress again and have finally come to realize the eating change really has to be permanent, not temporary.

The reason I put weight back on the first time is I am around a lot of doctors and they were very sceptical of Atkins, and I really thought I was doing myself harm by avoiding certain carbs -- I should have been more worried about being overweight. Physicians in the US are underinformed about this and some of them who are not and who are friends and are specialists and understand these issues, also tell me that they are sometimes hesitant/afraid to tell patients advice that contradicts the prevailing nutritionist/food pyramid wisdom because they expect criticism from peers, especially older peers.

Reading Taubes' book gave me the scientific basis necessary to feel confident with the decision to drastically reduce carbs. Atkins followed by Taubes' book was a life changer. I've still got a little ways to go, but I hate to think where I'd be otherwise.

As far as the calories go, I find it hard to exceed 2500 calories a day once I eliminate the carbs. My only point here is you can eat 2000 of the wrong calories and be fat or stay fat or eat 2000 of another set of calories and not be fat. For the enormous number of people who have tried to lose weight by counting calories, moderate exercise increase, and then fail, this is a revelation (if a strategy fails for 99% of people who try it, there may be a problem, and as Taubes points out, with the strategy. In what other area does a treatment strategy with a 99% failure rate continue to be viewed as a patient-problem and not a treatment-problem?).

I don't want to get sucked into another debate on diet here -the last one went on forever. But I do also think there is some value to also avoiding too much of any one food, limiting nitrates and eating some low carb vegetables instead of, say, bacon, at every meal (although you can get bacon now with minimal nitrates!) -- but as between being fat and increasing nitrate exposure, I'd take the nitrate risk. So, I agree in some sense with both Bronco Billy and theFuture37.

Finally, part of the brilliance of Taubes book is that he puts his finger on the "willpower" issue. He explains why the issue is more an informational issue than a willpower issue. The standard low calorie, increase exercise moderately, eat whole grains paradigm will work but for very few people - it's an inefficient and imperfectly formulated approach with some elements of likely defeat built-in.

Read Good Calories, Bad Calories if you haven't by Gary Taubes (it's not a "diet book", by the way, it's a book that uses current science information to compile a complex argument about the failure of the prevailing "food pyramid wisdom" to work). Bronco Billy is dead right about this.[/QUOTE]
:)
 
MEH

Eating a diet that is based on meat AND plants is healthier than a plant based diet.

nope. extremely unlikely. the only nutrient you cant get from plants is B12 and you need only minute amounts of it. that being said i am not anti-meat. i eat as much meat as most people in this country. that is a choice, but it doesnt mean a vegan diet isnt healthier.

i agree with almost all of those "top ten", especially the first 4. the absurdity of Taube's ideas is that his answer to the revelation that obesity is due to refined carbs and not animal fats(as is the current dogma) is a diet only of meat. somewhere along the line he realized that he wouldnt sell as many books by saying that a healthier alternative COULD be to eat a diet with some meat and mainly unprocessed carbohydrates. remember he is a journalist, not a scientist. that becomes very evident if you watch this round table discussion between taubes and ornish [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPyme62niYM[/media]

taubes gets absolutely killed by ornish, guess why, because ornish is a scientist with DATA and taubes is a journalist with no DATA.

as for GuitarHero, it sounds like the diet you are on is pretty good already. i wouldnt fix what isnt broken. if you are interested in the other side of the atkins debate, look up Dr. Ornish. his various diets, which vary from relatively normal to extremely vegan have been SCIENTIFICALLY proven(something atkins has never been) to reverse major diseases.
 
Deja vu!!!

Didn't we have this same debate last year, and we watched this video. We also came to the conclusion that Ornish is right when it comes to reversing heart disease, but his diet sn't necessary for ordinary people, and we giggled at your circular reasoning.

I also mentioned that syndrome X is caused more so by simple carbs, and the body's response to insulin. I said that I was going to do a 30 day all bean diet, or try the ram nut diet to see how it effects me. You asked, why would you try a diet that is for people with a neurological disorder. Why would I follow Ornish's diet that is for people with heart disease? I do not have heart disease in my family, I'm physically active-- I interval train up hills on a road bike, and do Olympic style weightlifting. My blood work is perfect. I eat plenty of meat, and plenty of veggies.
 
Deja vu!!!

Indeed. In my view, there's no point to rehashing 20 pages of debate, so I won't, and I will be checking out of this thread on page 2 instead of page 15 or whatever it was last year.

The only value, in my mind, of mentioning it again is that someone who has a strategy for dealing with being overweight that is not working might read something and try a new approach, whatever it is.

It's like golf in that way, if your approach sees no results after reasonable effort, keep looking till you find something that does produce results.
 
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