Good for You John... Fitness and Health are Earned and are Not Given...

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I also mentioned that syndrome X is caused more so by simple carbs, and the body's response to insulin. I said that I was going to do a 30 day all bean diet, or try the ram nut diet to see how it effects me. You asked, why would you try a diet that is for people with a neurological disorder. Why would I follow Ornish's diet that is for people with heart disease? I do not have heart disease in my family, I'm physically active-- I interval train up hills on a road bike, and do Olympic style weightlifting. My blood work is perfect. I eat plenty of meat, and plenty of veggies.

you are ignorant to how ornish works. the extreme versions arent meant for everyone. he calls food choices a "spectrum". the unhealthier you are, the more vegan you need to reverse or prevent disease. funny thing is that you follow one of his diets.
 
I read his book, and he does not have ownership of the paleolithic style diet, and it is beyond foolish to call what I'm doing "his" diet. Ornish spends the majority of his time pimping the veghead side of his spectrum.

You stared at my post for 15 mins, and this is what you give me!!! Gosh... I'm disappointed ;)
 

Bronco Billy

New member
John.. He Not Only did the Resurch... He Also Reached the Correct Conclusions....

It looks like Gary Taubes did the resurch. I learned something new today.

Billy, Thanks for posting this.

John.... Take the Leap of Faith... And You will Become a New and Healthier Man.....Take Your New Found Knowledge and Run.....:)
 

Bronco Billy

New member
How Does this Sound....

Hey, something I can agree with Bronco Billy on.

Unfortunately, the Taubes' book is one that many will find hard to read.

Bronco, you need to let Guitar Hero know that keeping his calorie count so low doesn't matter. Calories don't matter, it's the low carbs that makes his diet work. He can go to as many calories as you with very low carbs, and he will be much happier.Over/under for replies to this thread - 75. Unless Brian nukes it.

Deja vu indeed.

John... Calories and Weight Loss Defined by Current "Nutritionist" is BullShit.... Some Damn Chemist in a Lab Burned a Bunch of Food to a Crisp and Measured how Much Energy Each Food Emmitted....Thus Calorie Counts are Born.... Guess What John... Your Body Burns Food a Hell of a Lot Different than Some Damn USDA Chemist/"Nurtrionists" says Your Body Does... My Estimate is that Calories by Their Count is 1/3 Off.... That is 3600 Calories of Excess Carbs Will Put on 1/3 More Fat on Your Body than 3600 Calories of Excess of Protein etc. Will..... Have a Great Day with Your New Found Knowledge....:)
 
You want a good "diet"? Try The Anabolic Diet!!

Lots of fats and protein. Weekends you can sort of "cheat" and have carbs.

You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. All while pigging out on bacon, steak, etc. Not to mention helping your blood lipids.
 
You want a good "diet"? Try The Anabolic Diet!!

Lots of fats and protein. Weekends you can sort of "cheat" and have carbs.

You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. All while pigging out on bacon, steak, etc. Not to mention helping your blood lipids.

lipid counts dont matter much for heart disease or any of these diets. if you want to see why atkins type diets arent healthy(even though they might help you lose weight) look at markers of inflammation. thats what will give you diffuse disease, not cholesterol.
 
Indeed. In my view, there's no point to rehashing 20 pages of debate, so I won't, and I will be checking out of this thread on page 2 instead of page 15 or whatever it was last year.

I think it was like 50 pages! Bronco survived his lifestyle change, I made it 30 days on a zero carb diet, and then a month on the all bean diet. I seriously need to try the all nut diet. Anything for pseudo science!
 

Bronco Billy

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The Peanut or Egg/Bacon/JD Sausage Diet are my Bailout Short Duration Diets....

I think it was like 50 pages! Bronco survived his lifestyle change, I made it 30 days on a zero carb diet, and then a month on the all bean diet. I seriously need to try the all nut diet. Anything for pseudo science!

I Lose Weight Like Crazy on a Short Duration all Peanut Diet or an Egg Bacon/Sausage Diet...In any Event I alway Drink a Case of a Combination of Coke Zero(0),Diet AW RB, and Bottled H20(Water) EveryDay.... Maybe All the Liquid is a HangOver(Actually Never Had a Hangover with Coors Lite(5gm Carbs)) .... and I am Never Hungary... Have a Great Day....:)
 
I Lose Weight Like Crazy on a Short Duration all Peanut Diet or an Egg Bacon/Sausage Diet...In any Event I alway Drink a Case of a Combination of Coke Zero(0),Diet AW RB, and Bottled H20(Water) EveryDay.... Maybe All the Liquid is a HangOver(Actually Never Had a Hangover with Coors Lite(5gm Carbs)) .... and I am Never Hungary... Have a Great Day....:)

I could do an all boiled peanut diet. Fun with food.
 
swami rama found enlightenmnet and for a period of time he only ate a potato a day,
jesus fasted forty days
buddha fasted then ate a piece of fruit
my point?
dont really have one, just thought I would throw that out there
congrats john on loosing weight, should increase the gas mileage on the bike a little too
 
different diets for different folks.

I eat plenty of carbs and probably have a lower body fat % and higher fitness and strength levels than Mr Billy. Who knows, maybe one day I will turn into a fat piece of merde.
 
different diets for different folks.

I eat plenty of carbs and probably have a lower body fat % and higher fitness and strength levels than Mr Billy. Who knows, maybe one day I will turn into a fat piece of merde.

I could have so much fun with this post, but I don't know if you would appreciate my form of humor:)
 

Bronco Billy

New member
None of Them Were On Atkins... To Many Carbs...

swami rama found enlightenmnet and for a period of time he only ate a potato a day,
jesus fasted forty days
buddha fasted then ate a piece of fruit

my point?
dont really have one, just thought I would throw that out there
congrats john on loosing weight, should increase the gas mileage on the bike a little too
:)
 
Everything in moderation. Here's an interesting read, were not talking golf swings here guys but about your health so be careful....


Most people aren't able to remain on the Atkins Diet long enough to develop osteoporosis, kidney damage or hardening of the arteries. Sixteen year-old high school student Rachel Elizabeth Huskey only lasted seven weeks.

Rachel had a crush on a boy in her church. So she started the Atkins Diet to lose weight. In part because she was so nauseated on the diet, she lost 16 pounds. She was hoping being thinner would make her more popular at school. After a brief carbohydrate relapse, she began again "very strictly"[404] but could only stick with it this time for 9 days.

In history class, amidst cheering fellow students for acing a tough question, she collapsed without warning. And then she died. Frenzied attempts to resuscitate her failed.[405] Her doctors blame the Atkins Diet.

The kidney uses minerals such as potassium and calcium to help rid one's body of toxins like ketones. People on the Atkins Diet are urinating these minerals away. And critically low levels in the blood of these electrolytes can lead to fatal cardiac arrhythmias--lethal heart rhythms. Rachel was on the Atkins Diet, was found on autopsy to have critically low blood levels of both potassium and calcium, and she died of a cardiac arrhythmia. Rachel was previously in good health and had no history of any medical problems.

After ruling out other potential causes, the medical team of child health specialists that investigated her death couldn't help but conclude in their published report, "Sudden Cardiac Death of an Adolescent During Dieting," that the Atkins Diet was the most likely cause of her death.

The chief executive of the Atkins Corporation denied there was a link between the diet and Rachel's death, but implied she should have consulted her doctor before starting the diet.[406] In fact, concern over just such an event led the Director of the Nutrition Department at the esteemed Cleveland Clinic to declare that for people on the Atkins Diet, "Careful monitoring of electrolytes is absolutely essential..." Those who aren't professionally monitored on this kind of diet "are at the greatest risk for dangerous complications."[407]

Dr. Paul Robinson, the Director of Adolescent Medicine at the University of Missouri, who was involved in the investigation of Rachel's death, is afraid that "we're having lots of near misses that we don't know about."[408] "You wonder," he said, "whether there are other people dying and we don't know about it."[409]

"Is the diet safe for teenagers?" Dr. Atkins was asked in an interview. Dr. Atkins replied "The [Atkins] diet is safe for every overweight human being from the age of 18 months..."[512] Guided by this doctrine, the Atkins Corporation is trying to make inroads into schools. "I frankly think it's scandalous," said the Director of the Yale Prevention Research Center, "really very dangerous."[1155]

One would think a teenager collapsing and dying after just 9 days on the diet might have ruined people's appetite for Atkins, but her death was hardly reported in the American press. When her parents held a press conference to tell their story for the first time and warn others that Atkins "killed our little girl,"[410] it was reported in London, Scotland, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. But out of the 34 reports that made it into the papers around the world about this Missouri teen, only 3 appeared in the U.S.[411] Despite repeated warnings from the American Heart Association, enthusiasm for the Atkins Diet did not seem to wane.

While tending her daughter's immaculately-kept grave, Rachel's mom told a reporter her thoughts on the diet: "I want people to know you can actually die doing something as stupid as this."[412]
 
I like carbs, I like Bacon, and I like veggies. I eat what I want and have never been more than 5-10lbs overweight. Heres another read for the guys doing atkins:

The entire theoretical framework of low carb diets, like Atkins and The Zone, hang upon the notion that insulin is the root of all evil and so to limit insulin release one needs to limit carbohydrate intake. Dr. Atkins, for example, has a chapter entitled "Insulin--The Hormone That Makes You Fat,"[71] Protein Power calls it the “monster hormone,”[487] and the author of the Zone Diet calls insulin "the single most significant determinant of your weight."[72]

What they overlook is that "protein- and fat-rich foods may induce substantial insulin secretion" as well.[73] Research in which study subjects served as their own controls, for example, has shown that under fasting conditions a quarter pound of beef raises insulin levels in diabetics as much as a quarter pound of straight sugar.[74]

Atkins' featured foods like cheese and beef elevated insulin levels higher than "dreaded" high-carbohydrate foods like pasta. A single burger's worth of beef, or three slices of cheddar, boosts insulin levels more than almost 2 cups of cooked pasta.[75] In fact a study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that meat, compared to the amount of blood sugar it releases, seems to cause the most insulin secretion of any food tested.[76]

Low carb advocates like Atkins seem to completely ignore these facts. Recent medical reviews have called Atkins' feel-good theories "factually flawed"[77] and "at best half-truths."[78] "In the scientific world, books like the Zone Diet are generally regarded as fiction," one reviewer wrote in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. "The scientific literature is in opposition..."[79] In a medical journal article entitled "Food Fads and Fallacies," the Atkins Diet is referred to as a "'New wives' tale" with a "sprinkling of fallacies."[80]

According to a 2003 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association, "Dr. Atkins and his colleagues selectively recite the literature" to support their claims.[81] When researchers take the time to actually measure insulin levels, for instance, instead of just talking about them like Atkins does, they often find the opposite of what Atkins asserted.

A study done at Tufts, for example, presented at the 2003 American Heart Association convention, compared four popular diets for a year. They compared Weight Watchers, The Zone Diet, the Atkins Diet (almost no carbs), and the Ornish Diet (almost all carbs) for a year. The insulin levels of those instructed to go on the Ornish diet dropped 27%. Out of the four diets that were compared that year, Ornish's vegetarian diet was the only one to significantly lower the "Monster" "Hormone That Makes You Fat," even though that's supposedly what Atkins and The Zone diets were designed to do.[82]

In another study researchers took over a hundred pairs of identical twins and found that the more fat they ate, the higher their resting insulin levels were. Even with the same genes, the study "showed a consistent pattern of higher fasting insulin levels with intake of high-fat, low carbohydrate diets."[83]

Other studies show that a high (70-85%) carbohydrate diet (combined with walking an average of 15-30 minutes a day) not only can result in significant reductions in body weight, blood pressure, cholesterol and triglycerides, but significant drops in baseline insulin levels as well, exactly the opposite of what low carb pushers would predict. In just three weeks on a high (unrefined) carb vegetarian diet and a few minutes of daily walking, diabetics reduced the amount of insulin they needed and most of the pre-diabetics seemed cured of their insulin resistance.[84] In general vegetarians may have half the insulin levels of nonvegetarians even at the same weight.[85]

In an article entitled "Americans Love Hogwash," Edward H. Rynearson, Emeritus Professor of Medicine at the Mayo Clinic, singled out Dr. Atkins for dispensing hogwash he defines as "worthless, false or ridiculous speech or writings" and praised the AMA for "condemning this diet for its dangers."[86] The "evidence" cited by Atkins has been called "nearly all anecdotal and misleading."[87] "Carbophobia is a form of nutritional misinformation," a 2003 review in the Journal of the American College of Medicine noted, "infused into the American psyche through... advertising... infomercials... and best-selling diet books."[88]

"When unproven science becomes a sales pitch," declared a spokesperson for the American Institute for Cancer Research about low carb diets, "some people get rich and the rest of us get ripped off."[498]

We know that the Atkins Diet is successful--at making money. What about for weight loss? We know that cutting down on carbs will help people lose variety and nutrition in their diet,[89] and if they buy his supplements, their wallet may get slimmer, but what about their waistline?

Who cares if the American Medical Association calls Atkins's theory "naive," "biochemically incorrect," "inaccurate," and "without scientific merit?" Who cares if it "doesn't make physiological sense?"[90] The question is, does it work?
 

Bronco Billy

New member
I Can Find as Many Articles Etc that Counter Your Beliefs...

I like carbs, I like Bacon, and I like veggies. I eat what I want and have never been more than 5-10lbs overweight. Heres another read for the guys doing atkins:

The entire theoretical framework of low carb diets, like Atkins and The Zone, hang upon the notion that insulin is the root of all evil and so to limit insulin release one needs to limit carbohydrate intake. Dr. Atkins, for example, has a chapter entitled "Insulin--The Hormone That Makes You Fat,"[71] Protein Power calls it the “monster hormone,”[487] and the author of the Zone Diet calls insulin "the single most significant determinant of your weight."[72]

What they overlook is that "protein- and fat-rich foods may induce substantial insulin secretion" as well.[73] Research in which study subjects served as their own controls, for example, has shown that under fasting conditions a quarter pound of beef raises insulin levels in diabetics as much as a quarter pound of straight sugar.[74]

Atkins' featured foods like cheese and beef elevated insulin levels higher than "dreaded" high-carbohydrate foods like pasta. A single burger's worth of beef, or three slices of cheddar, boosts insulin levels more than almost 2 cups of cooked pasta.[75] In fact a study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that meat, compared to the amount of blood sugar it releases, seems to cause the most insulin secretion of any food tested.[76]

Low carb advocates like Atkins seem to completely ignore these facts. Recent medical reviews have called Atkins' feel-good theories "factually flawed"[77] and "at best half-truths."[78] "In the scientific world, books like the Zone Diet are generally regarded as fiction," one reviewer wrote in the Journal of the American College of Nutrition. "The scientific literature is in opposition..."[79] In a medical journal article entitled "Food Fads and Fallacies," the Atkins Diet is referred to as a "'New wives' tale" with a "sprinkling of fallacies."[80]

According to a 2003 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association, "Dr. Atkins and his colleagues selectively recite the literature" to support their claims.[81] When researchers take the time to actually measure insulin levels, for instance, instead of just talking about them like Atkins does, they often find the opposite of what Atkins asserted.

A study done at Tufts, for example, presented at the 2003 American Heart Association convention, compared four popular diets for a year. They compared Weight Watchers, The Zone Diet, the Atkins Diet (almost no carbs), and the Ornish Diet (almost all carbs) for a year. The insulin levels of those instructed to go on the Ornish diet dropped 27%. Out of the four diets that were compared that year, Ornish's vegetarian diet was the only one to significantly lower the "Monster" "Hormone That Makes You Fat," even though that's supposedly what Atkins and The Zone diets were designed to do.[82]

In another study researchers took over a hundred pairs of identical twins and found that the more fat they ate, the higher their resting insulin levels were. Even with the same genes, the study "showed a consistent pattern of higher fasting insulin levels with intake of high-fat, low carbohydrate diets."[83]

Other studies show that a high (70-85%) carbohydrate diet (combined with walking an average of 15-30 minutes a day) not only can result in significant reductions in body weight, blood pressure, cholesterol and triglycerides, but significant drops in baseline insulin levels as well, exactly the opposite of what low carb pushers would predict. In just three weeks on a high (unrefined) carb vegetarian diet and a few minutes of daily walking, diabetics reduced the amount of insulin they needed and most of the pre-diabetics seemed cured of their insulin resistance.[84] In general vegetarians may have half the insulin levels of nonvegetarians even at the same weight.[85]

In an article entitled "Americans Love Hogwash," Edward H. Rynearson, Emeritus Professor of Medicine at the Mayo Clinic, singled out Dr. Atkins for dispensing hogwash he defines as "worthless, false or ridiculous speech or writings" and praised the AMA for "condemning this diet for its dangers."[86] The "evidence" cited by Atkins has been called "nearly all anecdotal and misleading."[87] "Carbophobia is a form of nutritional misinformation," a 2003 review in the Journal of the American College of Medicine noted, "infused into the American psyche through... advertising... infomercials... and best-selling diet books."[88]

"When unproven science becomes a sales pitch," declared a spokesperson for the American Institute for Cancer Research about low carb diets, "some people get rich and the rest of us get ripped off."[498]

We know that the Atkins Diet is successful--at making money. What about for weight loss? We know that cutting down on carbs will help people lose variety and nutrition in their diet,[89] and if they buy his supplements, their wallet may get slimmer, but what about their waistline?

Who cares if the American Medical Association calls Atkins's theory "naive," "biochemically incorrect," "inaccurate," and "without scientific merit?" Who cares if it "doesn't make physiological sense?"[90] The question is, does it work?

The Certainty is that the Food Pyramid is Evil and has Destroyed the Health of the US..... Now the Economic Collapse of the World....The Certainty Here is that there Will Be Major Changes in Most Things in the Near Future.... Some will Win... Most Will Lose...One Must Change ones Life Views to Win in any Struggle.... If You are Fat and UnHealthy and have Tried Everything but Atkins to lose Weight and be Healthy and Failed...... Atkins is Your Last Hope....If Atkins Doesn't Work You are Sick from other Factors(Probably the Food Pyramid and are Doomed).....The Choice is Yours.... Good Calories Bad Calories is a Must read to view All Sides of the Issue....If you read the book and are Still Terrified of Atkins... Fine... Move on with Your Life with the Knowledge that Your Decision was made with a Clear Picture of the Reality of the Situation.... Have a Great Day.....:)

Ps. One Third of the US Medical Profession Practioners Prescribe the Atkin's Diet for Weight Loss and other Health Issues.... And the Number is Growing...
 
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What gets my attention more than any is the unbiased reports done. I couldn't live on an Atkins diet and I couldn't live on an all fruit and veggie diet either. I believe it comes down to a balance diet and the obesity problem comes from the price of fast food and processed foods in the supermarket are the cheapest and easiest way to eat and unfortunately we are the laziest society that has ever existed. I have never had a weight problem it may be genetic or that I am active and eat a balanced diet. I just wanted to point out some alleged health risks before someone goes on a certain diet because someone on the internet said it was good for you.

For the record, I think the Atkins diet is hogwash and I think the Vegan diet is hogwash.

To eat healthy it takes some work to prepare meals and it is a little more expensive but worth it.
 

Bronco Billy

New member
Matt.. You are Not the Problem... The Problem is the 40% Obese US Citizens...

What gets my attention more than any is the unbiased reports done. I couldn't live on an Atkins diet and I couldn't live on an all fruit and veggie diet either. I believe it comes down to a balance diet and the obesity problem comes from the price of fast food and processed foods in the supermarket are the cheapest and easiest way to eat and unfortunately we are the laziest society that has ever existed. I have never had a weight problem it may be genetic or that I am active and eat a balanced diet. I just wanted to point out some alleged health risks before someone goes on a certain diet because someone on the internet said it was good for you.

For the record, I think the Atkins diet is hogwash and I think the Vegan diet is hogwash.

To eat healthy it takes some work to prepare meals and it is a little more expensive but worth it.

The Truth is... That The USDA Food Pyramid which Deifines "Healthy Eating" in the US is Evil and has Caused the US Obesity Epidemic.....:eek:
 
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